Cuauhtémoc Cárdenas Solórzano (Mexico City, 88 years old) can’t remember exactly when he decided to stop running for office. The last time his ambitions for popular office were announced was in 2005, when he was about to run for the fourth time for President of the Republic. It was then that he finally stepped aside to make way for Andrés Manuel López Obrador, who was beginning to occupy a prominent place in the left movement in Mexico. Over time, Cárdenas, son of the long-awaited former labor and agrarian president Lázaro Cárdenas (1934-1940), chose to fight discreetly, less a candidate and more an ideologue for progressive causes.
His latest adventure, the shaping of a new political front by Movimiento Ciudadano (MC), earned him sharp criticism from President López Obrador, who labeled him a political opponent for working with opponents of his government. Cárdenas, Mexico City’s first elected ruler, has responded for the first time to criticism from López Obrador, who was once his PRD brother and political godson. The engineer, as he is commonly known, replies sparingly, without intending to be polemic: that he is not an opponent of the President; on the contrary, he appreciates him and that there is no distance between them. But he also warns that he will continue to work for full democracy in Mexico and will never remain silent.
Cárdenas moves slowly, as if aware of his every step, through his studio at the Lázaro Cárdenas and Amalia Solórzano AC Center, where he receives EL PAÍS amid bronze busts and paintings of his father. Despite being the son of a myth, El Ingeniero has earned his place as the moral leader of the Mexican left. All in all, he feels that the democratic struggle predates its existence and will survive it when it’s gone.
Questions. At the weekend there will be a government-designated commemoration of the oil expropriation. President López Obrador said you were invited.
Answer. Well, he said everyone’s invited. That no one is uninvited.
Q Are you considering going?
R I haven’t considered it yet.
Q But isn’t it also a no?
R It’s not a no and it’s not a yes. Usually on March 18th we go to the Revolution Monument where my father’s remains are and there is a family reunion. We will do that as we have done every year.
Q What was your participation in Colectivo por México or Mexicolectivo?
R I was there for a while, a year or a year and a half, where they informed us about how a document was being prepared. As far as I know, this happened without any public information about it. And then it was decided that there would be a public presentation, and at that moment I informed everyone who had invited me to help formulate this – I would say – skeleton of a national project, it’s not going to be a national project, but rather it is the framework to build a project that I told I would no longer participate. That’s it. I did not invite anyone to participate, neither in the previous meetings nor those who were present on the day when the project was to be presented to the public.
Cárdenas during the interview with Nadya Murillo
Q who invited you
R Senator Dante Delgado, who I’ve been friends with for a long time.
Q Why did you decide not to participate anymore?
R Well, I just thought that would be the end of my participation. I have other activities and do not wish to make any further commitments at this time.
Q What did Dante answer?
R He accepted what I told him and there was no further comment. As friends as always.
Q It seems that this collective lost a lot when you left.
R I didn’t go because I didn’t arrive.
Q But he had a part in putting this “skeleton” together.
R Until then. And I left it there.
Q All of this drew sharp criticism from President López Obrador. What did you think when you heard that he said you were his political opponent?
R Well, he just had no reason to say that. I am not his political opponent. Of course, I can be one of the others, but I have never seen myself as a political opponent of the current President of the Republic.
Q As a result, they started talking about the distance that exists between the two of you.
R There is no distancing. We have maintained this relationship for many years.
Q While they’re not adversaries, as you point out, they’re not best friends either.
R Well, I’m not a government official, that’s one thing, but I maintain the friendship with the same level of appreciation I’ve had for him since we’ve been traveling together. Sometimes more together, sometimes less, but I maintain the degree of friendship.
Q You say you’re not a government official, but are you a sympathizer?
R I do not know what that means.
Q Well, there is a degree of coincidence.
R There is a degree of similarity and there is a degree of difference, as we have with virtually everyone else.
Q The PRI’s Francisco Labastida, who ran against you in the 2000 presidential election, works with Mexicolectivo. How was it for you to meet him again?
R No, I experienced it for a long time, not only as a candidate in an election campaign: we met mutual friends, we met under different circumstances, so there were no surprises in that respect.
Q Only now has he been found to work on a project.
R No, everyone just made whatever observations they felt necessary and, as I said, to build a national project one finds many differences and many similarities.
Q López Obrador has recognized you as a “forerunner of the democratic movement in Mexico” and quoted you verbatim. How does it feel to be left alone as a forerunner?
R I continue to see myself as a promoter of deep democratic change in the country. There are still many things to do before we can consider living in a full democracy.
Cuauhtémoc Cárdenas and Andrés Manuel López Obrador during the campaign for the 2000 presidential and capital city elections. Pedro Mera (Cuartoscuro)
Q Is it more than a precursor?
R We can call me progenitor or not, depending on what I want to say: progenitor of what? I believe that the struggle for democracy in Mexico began long before my own existence and will certainly continue well beyond my own existence.
Q Speaking of ancestors in the left struggle, López Obrador has chosen the figure of his father, Lázaro Cárdenas, as the insignia of his government. Do you think López Obrador is a Cardenista?
R No, I don’t think he’s a Cardenista. Nor do I believe that he is a Maderista, nor that he is a Juarista or a Hidalguista. I think he takes ideas from many great figures who have played a very important role in Mexican history.
Q What do you think of the political opposition that wants to face López Obrador in 2024?
R What I don’t see from any of the political parties is a program of where they want to take the country. Without a program we cannot know what the different parties want to do, united or not, jointly or separately.
Q How do you see that Movimiento Ciudadano did not want to participate in the state elections of Mexico and Coahuila this year?
R They are decisions of a political party. I don’t interfere in other people’s lives. I’m not in any party so it’s hard for me to comment on the decisions they make.
Q What do you think of the alliances of the PRD, the party you founded?
R And which I left in 2014.
Q Has it stopped being the PRD you founded in 1989?
R In 2014 it started to cease to be what I knew when the party was founded. It seemed to me that certain principles had been abandoned, that no effort was being made to strengthen territorial bases, that there was a squabble between internal groups.
Q What do you think of Morena’s presidential hopefuls? Do they promise to be just an extension of the López Obrador project?
R I don’t know your programs. I can’t tell you what they or those who might want to run for opposition parties are proposing to us.
Q What do you think of Marcelo Ebrard?
R He is a good friend.
Q By Claudia Scheinbaum?
R I’ll tell you the same thing: a good friend.
Q By Adam Augusto Lopez?
R In my case, he is also a good friend.
Q And what about Ricardo Monreal?
R Also. We worked together for a long time when I was in the PRD. And we’re still friends.
Q Do all four give you confidence?
R I do not know what the four propose as possible candidates for the presidency of the republic. I am not aware that any of them have already presented a comprehensive program as a national project.
Cuauhtémoc Cárdenas at his home in Mexico City Nadya Murillo
Q How do you assess López Obrador’s government in what is practically its last year?
R I would wait for the end of government to take stock.
Q As the son of the author of the oil expropriation, what do you think of this government’s energy policy?
R There must be an important change for Petróleos Mexicanos (Pemex) to have budgetary and managerial autonomy. We need to think about very responsible management of oil reserves. We need to think about the changes that are taking place in the energy world to move more towards renewable energy and to devote oil mainly to petrochemicals and industrialization instead of fuel production. These are changes that should take place much more intensively in our country.
Q How do you see this government’s commitment to refining?
R It seems to me that it is important. We can’t stop producing fuel just yet. We must speed up the modernization of existing refineries and reduce our gasoline imports. But at the same time, we would have to use a large part of the existing facilities, not to produce fuel, but to go straight to the petrochemical industry.
Q How do you rate the fight against inequality?
Q If we look at the figures provided by the government itself, half the population lives in poverty and wealth is concentrated in smaller and smaller groups. We must take serious steps in this regard. For example, generalize on social security and seriously consider – to have resources for it – a deep tax and financial reform that has not been implemented and which is a demand made by different political groups and different economic visions.
Q What features should this tax reform have?
R Be progressive, tax more on those who earn more and remove the tax burden from those who earn less. Of course, it must be recognized that significant efforts have been made to improve the collection, but it was not enough that the state has the necessary resources that the country’s development requires.
Q And in terms of public safety?
R There would also have to be a big change. It is that more or less the same thing has been done for several decades and if you do the same thing again you will get the same result again. Therefore, a very serious and thorough review of the best ways to fight crime and keep people safe, eliminate extortion, mortgages, etc. that we have seen across the country should be opened. And it seems to me that this requires a change in strategies: improving intelligence, research. But it also requires the involvement of different sectors of society in this effort, and there should be good coordination of this effort.
Q Do you think the government’s approach to addressing the root causes of violence is sufficient: going into poverty, offering social programs?
R It would indeed be necessary to get to the bottom of it. Strive to consistently increase income in all sectors, reduce informality through good formal employment opportunities, fight poverty also through formal work and universal social security services.
Q Already, extremist proposals are emerging from some government critics and presidential candidates, such as copying El Salvador’s model to combat insecurity.
R This is the worst thing that can happen to the country.
Q What do you think of the two Republican congressmen’s proposal to involve the US army in the fight against drug trafficking?
R It would be the worst measure to accept that outsiders come here to solve our problems.
Q Will you continue to be politically active at the age of 88?
R I don’t see why you should stop doing this.
Q How have you been coming up with ideas lately?
R That is, I will not take part in elections, I will not stand for anything. But shut up, I won’t shut up.
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