Jann Wenner, the publishing icon who co-founded Rolling Stone and ran the magazine for five decades, is releasing a new book this month called “The Masters.” In Little Brown and Company, Wenner draws on long interviews he conducted during his time at Rolling Stone with a selection of rock titans, including Bono, Bob Dylan, Jerry Garcia, Mick Jagger, John Lennon, Bruce Springsteen and Pete Townshend.
To promote The Masters, Wenner himself did a lengthy interview with The New York Times’ David Marchese (former online editor at Rolling Stone) in which he talked about how he focused on these particular rockers for the book : Many of them are or were close friends. The book contains no interviews with black or female musicians, and Wenner’s explanation of why that is is now causing a stir online.
Marchese asked Wenner to elaborate on the selection process, which is discussed in the book’s introduction, where he writes that artists of color and women artists are not in his zeitgeist. “When I referred to the zeitgeist, I was referring to black artists, not female artists, okay? Just to be precise. The choice was not a conscious choice. It’s been kind of intuitive over the years; it just fit together like that. People had to meet a few criteria, but it was just my personal interest and love for them. As far as the women go, none of them were so articulate enough on that intellectual level,” he said.
Marchese refuted this claim by quoting Joni Mitchell. “It’s not that they aren’t creative geniuses. It’s not that they’re inarticulate, but have a detailed conversation with Grace Slick or Janis Joplin. Please be my guest. You know, Joni wasn’t a rock ‘n’ roll philosopher. In my opinion she failed this test. Not through her work, not through other interviews she has done. The people I interviewed were rock philosophers,” Wenner said. “From black artists – you know, Stevie Wonder, a genius, right? I suppose when you use a word as broad as “master,” the mistake is in using that word. Maybe Marvin Gaye or Curtis Mayfield? I mean, they just couldn’t articulate themselves at that level.”
Wenner said he based this claim on intuition, reading interviews and listening to music. “I mean, look at what Pete Townshend wrote about, or Jagger, or any of them. They were deep stories about a certain generation, a certain spirit and a certain attitude to rock ‘n’ roll. Not that the others didn’t do it, but they were the ones who could really articulate it.”
He said he could have reconsidered his position and that “for publicity reasons, maybe I should have found a black artist and a female artist who didn’t meet that historical standard, just to avoid something like that” from criticism. Which I understand. I had the chance to do it. Maybe I’m old fashioned and don’t care [expletive] or what ever. In hindsight, I wish I could have interviewed Marvin Gaye. Maybe he would have been the guy. Maybe if Otis Redding had lived, he would have been the guy.”
Not long after the story was published this morning, many readers (including many journalists) took to X, formerly known as Twitter, to criticize Wenner’s stance.
Wenner and Marchese also discussed the former’s admission that he allowed his subjects to edit the transcripts of their interviews, an unethical practice in journalism. Wenner defended the practice, saying his interviews should be “sensitive” and insightful conversations with artists, not politicians or business leaders.
“Look, nothing significant has ever changed compared to the original interviews. These are all small changes that really help with accuracy, readability, all that stuff. Second, these were not confrontational interviews. The interviews were always intended to be collaborative,” said Wenner. “These are profiles, so to speak. If I have to trade the level of trust necessary to get this kind of interview, I have to allow people to keep a few things secret, nothing valuable, maybe something about their children or their family or a desire not to disparage someone want .”
Speaking of belittling others, Wenner said he apologized to Jagger after he told Maureen Dowd in a New York Times profile last year that the Rolling Stones rockers looked like Lord of the Rings characters. “He couldn’t believe I said that,” Wenner said of Jagger. “I had to say, ‘Look, I’m so sorry. I just wanted publicity and tried to be super smart and please forgive myself.’ Of course he did it. But it was one of those careless comments. A friend shouldn’t say something like that. You don’t want to read about Maureen Dowd’s thing in the New York Times. Oh, Mick Jagger looks like he’s the wizard Gandalf. He was absolutely right and I felt terrible.”