The Minister of Justice of Peru, José Tello Alfaro, in his office in Lima last Tuesday.CESAR CAMPOS
The government of Dina Boluarte, which came to power in Peru after Pedro Castillo’s failed suicide attempt last December, is facing increasingly in-depth citizen polls. According to the Institute for Peruvian Studies (IEP), 77% of voters disapprove of his leadership and nine out of ten disapprove of Congress’ performance. “It’s just a snapshot,” says Justice and Human Rights Minister José Tello Alfaro (Lima, 48 years old) in his office. For one of Boluarte’s most loyal political leaders, the executive, who will be three months old next Tuesday, is “democratic, open to dialogue and exudes confidence abroad.” Since then, 60 people have been killed and 1,300 injured in clashes with security forces.
Q Have you checked the latest polls?
R Yes, government acceptance is pretty low…
Q What do you think when political analysts say this is a civilian-military government?
R That they are wrong, because what is most sought after is dialogue. Dialogue is a pillar of democracy. We are talking about a government that is not backed by armed forces and police forces. It is a democratic government with full freedom of expression, so much so that there are daily attacks on the government. It’s nothing that is prevented.
Q Does a life cost 50,000 soles?
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R Not at all. A life is priceless.
Q Does this executive action of paying 50,000 soles to the bereaved and 25,000 soles to those injured in the mobilizations seem right to you?
R We’re not talking about compensation. Later there will be compensation to be determined by the judiciary. What we do is solidarity support that cannot be misunderstood as a price for life. That strikes me as nonsense in the truest sense of the word. It seems impermissible to me. The state’s response was immediate and supportive. There is extensive action by the Commission.
Q How was your visit to Ayacucho, where you spoke to the families of the victims?
R It was hard. Reaching out and meeting people who have suffered irreparable losses is not easy. Or that they hurt relatives. A dialogue was sought and found. There is agreement to improve the work of the Commission [creada para atender la crisis]. We have agreed to return late next week.
Q Will you go to Juliaca?
R It will take some time, but it must be done in due course. And it’s progressive. The situation in Ayacucho a month ago was not what it is now.
Q In Juliaca, the head of the bereaved group has already spoken and said that “no money will restore the lost lives”. What do you want to say when you stand in front of them?
R The same as I said in Ayacucho, and the same as I would say otherwise in such a situation: the loss of a person is irreparable. No compensation can bring a loved one back to life. This is about doing something now. It is important that while justice continues its process, we do not lose our touch of humanity as a state.
Q Did you apologize in your speech in Ayacucho?
R Yes, because there was a lot of trouble with generalized statements about vandalism, terrorism. But I also want to be very clear that we as a government have already apologized…
Q Have you ever marched?
R [Piensa] Not really.
Q You’ve often said what a protest should be like, but it turns out you’ve never had that experience…
R In particular, I’ve seen the right to protest…which is, for example, I’ve shared how a civil lawsuit can end. We left the Fujimori government in the late ’90s and I, like many young people at the time, was…
Q Are you anti-Fujimorista?
R. More than an anti-Fujimorista, he was against what Alberto Fujimori’s government represented. Today Fujimorismo is a political force.
Q Why are French unions protesting pension reform and no deaths recorded or why were there more than 1,200 people arrested in Brazil in January when Bolsonaro supporters attacked public facilities and no deaths either?
R The dead are something undesirable for every constitutional state. Those who lose their lives affect us all. It must harm us as a society.
Q Will someone who destroys private property be arrested, arrested and tried, or shot?
R When there are such situations, there are protocols and they must be followed. Those who do not follow them are liable. The situations permissible in each constitutional state stem from the legitimate exercise of protest. Unfortunately, when it comes to violence, things get different connotations. The actions of the armed forces, the police and the civilian population are the subject of investigations and are being investigated by the public prosecutor’s office.
Q He speaks of dialogue, but in various messages to the nation, the President, even when apologizing, has not stopped calling the protesters vandals.
R The President of the Republic speaks on the basis of one line of this government: dialogue. If at some point he raises the tone, it is because he must also give the people affected by this situation the feeling that order must prevail. But that doesn’t mean there’s no dialogue.
Q This “raising of the voice” is actually stigmatizing.
R What happens is that it separates the protest from the isolated facts. The mere use of the term in this case does not mean that there is stigmatization.
Q During the past three months, Peru has declared the President of Colombia, Gustavo Petro, persona non grata and has just removed the Peruvian ambassador to Mexico. Are we isolating ourselves in the region?
R Not at all, because our relations with most countries are solid.
Q Although the President of Chile, Gabriel Boric, spoke out against the President and called for a change of direction…
R Apart from your comment at CELAC, were there any other reactions to this? Argentina, what position is it now? Bolivia? Mr. Evo Morales does not count. If we take stock, the serious problem lies with the President of Mexico, but not with Mexico. You are a sister nation. We have centuries of historical brotherhood. But Mr Petro’s position is inadmissible, and so is Mr Andrés Manuel López Obrador’s. It is clear interference in Peruvian affairs. The Lord should be worried about the half million people protesting in the Zocalo or the high crime rate in Mexico. As much as he has ideological empathy, he has his own to worry about. What happens in Peru is none of his business. We are a constitutional government.
Q Constitutional, but with very little legitimacy.
R Because it’s a photo of the moment. Polls are subject to change. But that doesn’t mean we don’t read the polls carefully. I don’t want to minimize them. I just want to give them their true dimension.
Q He noted that the President will not resign for reasons of responsibility. Isn’t it more dignified to step aside when the street doesn’t want you?
R What could happen with the alleged denial of the president’s resignation? First, naming a new executive board of Congress, and second, determining whether there will be only presidential or general elections. These are extremely complex situations, as the Constitution does not require them. What can Congress interpret? That they’re just presidential candidates. In everyday life, we understand that the country needs solutions. Managen meets the needs of the population on a daily basis. Because that’s the only way we can give this country peace of mind.
Q At what cost this rest?
R The Cost of Democracy. Democracy itself. The responsibility of Dina Boluarte. You attend to the needs of the road by taking on management. The ministries cannot stop.
Q There was no self-criticism in this conversation.
R What we have to do is bring order to the various ministries where there are still consequences of the previous government. We must also prevent people from feeling again that their priorities are not the main agenda of this government. Some interviews like this one become monothematic because they are not propositive. You didn’t ask me how I found the Ministry and what we achieved.
Q Again, he expressed no self-criticism.
R We need to communicate better and address the underlying issues that the population needs. We don’t cling to power.
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