The memory of the 1980s when he was at the helm of IRI helping a poor but already hardworking and more efficient China than Russia; and communist leader Deng Xiaoping asked him to bring Maradona to Beijing. Italy’s imprudence in signing the 2019 memorandum with Xi Jinping. Macron’s illusion to count alone. The importance of Europe in saving the world from war. These are the themes addressed by Romano Prodi in a television interview devoted to the Chinese question. The interview was recorded before the disappearance of his wife Flavia and will be broadcast on La7 in my show “Inchieste da firm”: a journey in two episodes in the two rival empires, America and China. The first on the United States tonight at 9:15 p.m., the second on the People’s Republic on June 27th.
When did your relationship with China begin?
“I was President of IRI in the 1980s. IRI had received an order from the Soviet Union for a pipe system for oil production. Two and a half years later, the Chinese government asked us for a sister factory in the port of Beijing, Tianjin. We completed the Chinese factory and young Chinese technicians helped us build the Soviet factory. I understood everything then. Another episode from the 80s. Ansaldo received the order for two power plants in China. We sign the contract, the Chinese counterpart tells me: “President Deng Xiaoping would like to see Maradona play… two games in Beijing and Shanghai, Deng will be in the stadium, we will have 600 million spectators.” Napoli coach Ottavio Bianchi replies : “Maradona wants 300 million lire.” I didn’t feel like a guarantee that a public company would spend similar amounts on a football match.”
The changes compared to China at that time?
“In my conversations as prime minister in the 1990s and as president of the European Commission from 2000 to 2005 … the Chinese president obviously didn’t tell me that he wanted to become a democrat; There was Communism, but there was almost an admiration for Western systems, an extreme curiosity about the European Union. attention to the euro. We were a model. Since Xi Jinping has existed, the language has changed; It is a self-confident China that says: We have lifted 800 million people out of poverty. When arguing, go slowly. The world will look at us and not at you.’
Has globalization reversed?
‘The real problem is the transition from economic priority to political priority. The dispute does not affect all assets. Last November, amid US-China tensions, they failed to unload all the goods arriving from China at the Port of Los Angeles. There’s a fight over new phones, electronic components and batteries, but the trade rages on because… a third of China’s exports are made by mostly American multinationals. There’s this kind of double doctrine: a very tough political fight, a very tough commercial fight for the goods that influence politics, then dog don’t eat dog.”
In 2019, Italy, the only G7 country, signs a memorandum to become part of the New Silk Road. If you had been Prime Minister, would you have signed? Did we have any advantages?
‘It has brought no benefit to Italy. Given my background and the awareness I have of the balance of power in the world, I would have signed with the other European countries. We have to work with Germany, France and Spain because that is our bloc. But here, too, Phariseeism has gone very far. Italy is accused of signing, but in 2020 – the period between Trump and Biden – the European Union, in this case Germany, had prepared a protocol with China called the “Comprehensive Investment Agreement” that went well beyond the Silk Road. As soon as the new American president came into power, the protocol was abolished.”
Washington warns Europe against Chinese investments in infrastructure. The ports, the fifth generation of Telekom for super-fast Internet. Americans say China’s incursion threatens our security.
‘When Qataris or Chinese buy villas in Sardinia or in our ports, they don’t take them away from us. We can control them if we have the mind to control them. The good development of the Greek economy is due to the fact that Piraeus has become the strongest port of relations with China and the Eastern Mediterranean. I think it should have been a role of the Italian ports. On the other hand, caution should be exercised with technologies and companies as they enter the strategy space.”
Some European countries have joined an embargo on certain advanced technologies from China. Xi Jinping accuses America of trying to stop China.
“China is pursuing policies hostile to the United States, and the United States is pursuing policies hostile to China.” The real change is that, particularly with the war in Ukraine, the intermediate players have disappeared. Europe no longer matters and Russia even less. When it came to the Cuban Missile Crisis, Kennedy made a beautiful statement: “We are not here to convert the enemy.” Democracy can only be exported with democracy, as we have done with European enlargement. I hope that Europe will finally create its unity to play a refereeing role in this situation. Nowadays it’s no longer like that.’
During his trip to Beijing, Macron spoke of Europe’s strategic autonomy, of reducing the role of the dollar, and even went so far as to say that no vital European interests were at stake in a conflict over Taiwan.
“France alone cannot do these things.” Along with Macron there was Von der Leyen. Macron was received at the airport by President Xi Jinping and she by smaller officials. He was treated as an equal, she was not. This is a big mistake, because Macron alone will never achieve the goals he has announced. On the contrary: the war in Ukraine brought about an enormous change. With the change in the German military budget, the balance of power also changes. And Macron can only become very strong if he brings his strengths (the right of veto in the UN Security Council and nuclear deterrence) to the European level.”