Not even her critics can deny Sihem Bensedrine (La Marsa, 1950) her status as a tireless fighter. Bensedrine has been a member of the Tunisian League for Human Rights since 1979 and has long been a key player in the opposition to the Ben Ali regime. She practiced independent journalism until her arrest in 2001. After several months in captivity, international pressure forced the regime to free her and ended up in temporary exile. In fact, he spent some time in Barcelona with the support of the non-governmental organization PEN International.
She has received several international awards for her condemnation of corruption and human rights abuses and only received recognition from the Tunisian state in 2014 when she was appointed President of the Authority for Truth and Dignity (IVD). This institution had the task of uncovering the crimes of the dictatorship and preparing the prosecution of the most serious crimes. After a turbulent tenure at the helm of the IVD, Bensedrine has stepped down to make way for the new generations. It is her job to fight for a return to democracy after Kais Said’s self-coup, who took full power in 2021. However, that did not prevent Bensedrine from becoming a victim of repression and being banned from going abroad. Four cases are pending against her, which she describes as “empty” in this interview at her home in Tunis.
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Questions. How do you assess the Kais Said phenomenon?
Answer. Kais Said is a disaster on every level. But he is just one small example of the far-right wind that is blowing around the world and that started in Europe. This trend has even affected some who identify themselves as left but govern from the right. We turn our backs on all universal values, such as human rights, which one day made us believe in a more humane and united world.
Q In fact, their racist speeches surprised them [a principios de este año, el presidente arremetió contra los migrantes subsaharianos, lo que desató una ola de violencia xenófoba].
R If I had to create a hierarchy of things that don’t work in my country, the first would be the policy towards migrants because it destroys values and touches the depths of ourselves, our values as Tunisians, as Muslims. It marks a real moral failure. And will Europe help us? No, just the opposite. In fact, Kais Said had adopted a tentative policy on the matter. But when Italy backed him, and with him the EU at his back, the current dehumanization of migrants began. I am ashamed of Tunisia.
The policy towards migrants destroys values, it touches the depths of ourselves, our values as Tunisians, as Muslims […] I am ashamed of Tunisia
Q What were the mistakes of the transition in Tunisia?
R First of all, the politicians who made it were apprentices. They were inexperienced, arrogant and very ambitious. They put their party interests above the country. Without forgetting the personal ego. Arrogance is blind. After the revolution, the old regime wasn’t dead, it was just wounded. And when you hurt a beast, you have to do it. They were afraid of him, they began to make concessions, each time becoming more important. Until the beast ate her after recovering.
Q And if we shift the focus a bit to talk about the Arab Spring. Is the analysis the same?
R The dynamic was the same as here, but the difference is there [en países como Egipto o Siria] Israel is a border and that’s why everything was faster and more violent. When Israel’s interests are at stake, international powers intervene more directly.
Q What is the current human rights situation in Tunisia?
R Very bad, I would say even worse than the dictator Ben Ali, because he knew how far he could go, where the limits were. That is no longer the case. They used to do terrible things in secret, now they don’t do it anymore. They are unleashed, unrestrained, they are not ashamed of anything. The Kais Said regime is a caricatured version of the old regime. He’s kind of a radicalized Ben Ali. All Said wants is to live in the presidential palace, deliver his speeches, jail people who bother him… and feel like he has power.
After the revolution in Tunisia, the old regime wasn’t dead, it was just wounded
Q But now there are no more people dying from torture in police stations, are there?
R Yes, there are, but they are common criminals and not adversaries. Then a report said they died outside the police station and that was it. These cases are not Said’s fault. It’s the police who do what they want. Nobody can correct them. Youth policy is even more repressive than Ben Ali’s. Many young people see only two options: take drugs or throw themselves into the sea. If you look at the rap songs, they’re anti-repressive, they’re anti-police. Young people feel the anger, they rebel.
Q And how do you see the situation of women’s rights?
R I used to be a classic feminist, but my IVD experience changed my perspective on things. The donors have asked us to set up a “gender commission”. And we did it the way they wanted, according to their canons. But when I then listened to the testimonies of women who had gone through very difficult situations, they mostly talked about their family life. Then they burst into tears. According to their own story, what hurt most was not being attacked, but the beings they loved. So I started thinking: Why are they forcing us to be isolated with women? A woman cannot be isolated from her context as if she were a loose atom. We develop in society when we share our feelings with other people. When the threads that bind us are severed, they destroy us. This is why I ultimately suggested working from the couple, not just the woman. And we did a report on the impact of state violence on couples’ lives.
Why is the West in our region only concerned with the “liberation of women”?
Q So you disagree with the western model of feminism?
R Today I wonder if the use of women in the Islamic world or in Africa is not a kind of Trojan horse that dominates us. Why is the West in our region only concerned with the “liberation of women”? Men, children, shouldn’t they be set free? They have their rules and criteria for how a woman should be. First of all, you have to be secular (preferably anti-Islamist), dress like them (not like their ancestors) and speak their language. In Tunisia, all rights are recognized in the law, but are we really capable of building a fulfilling life? A model is being imposed on us in which social ties seem like a burden. It is a very individualistic vision of man, born out of a liberal-capitalist ideal, and this model is destroying society.
Q I see them with a very anti-Western discourse…
R Of course, I’m not saying that everything is negative in the West. There are many NGOs, civil society and some media that are doing a good job. But when I speak of the West, I mean the ruling system that wants to exploit, plunder our resources. And to do that, they must destroy our societies and turn us into simple consumers. The dominant West is imperialist. Look what is happening with our doctors here in Tunisia: we have a shortage because they go to France, they were taken away from us. I’m not just thinking about Tunisia, but about all of Africa. And I’m proud of the resistance movement that arose there against France.
Look what is happening with our doctors here in Tunisia: we have a shortage because they go to France, they were taken away from us. I am proud of the resistance movement that arose in Africa against France
Q How do you rate the IVD experience?
R It was a true miracle that we were able to complete our mission. They put so many obstacles in our way… The first to oppose us were the Islamists [el partido político] Ennahda, who made a pact with the devil of the old regime. He asked for my head but didn’t get it. The international community did not help us. At one point, the United Nations Development Program (UNDP) asked us not to name the perpetrators, and they even withdrew our aid funds. Germany was the only country that supported us. Currently, the special chambers of transitional justice [que se encargan de las causas instruidas por la IVD] they are blocked. The Attorney General tells the judges, “If you continue the trials, I will strike you down.” And the judges are afraid of him. The sessions continue to take place, but there is no conclusion of the processes with the corresponding judgments.
Q Was the experience still worth it?
R Yes, because we left a legacy. It’s like we’ve drilled a hole in the wall of a fortress. Perhaps things will change in the future and it will be possible to meet. I compare it to what happened in Spain. Even decades after the civil war, many people have not given up and still hope to be able to bury their relatives lying in mass graves. Repressive systems supported only by violence are unstable. The victims will keep fighting. And me by his side.
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