Nacho Cano (Madrid, 60 years old) presents the second season of Malinche, a musical that celebrates, in his words, “the birth of mestizaje”. A work that was born with controversy and now resists commercial success. As he does so, he smiles and rolls up his short-sleeved shirt, revealing even more of his muscular arms.
Questions. Did you think there would be a second season?
Answer. I thought about this musical in the long term and also in Spanish and English. I thought about it for the life of me. The second season is an evolution of the original plan, which is going well. The entire dining and entertainment offering is significantly better. The musical in English is performed on Friday and Saturday afternoons for all the German, French, Japanese tourists… The huge tourism goes to the West End in London or Broadway in New York and now they have this opportunity where they can also find out about it You can find out about our history, the discovery of America, the spread of Spanish, why we are like that and see spectacular flamenco.
Q A musical for foreign tourists.
R. We would like to make you an existing offer. In Ibiza, for example, all shows are in English. This audience is already there. It’s the audience that visits the Prado Museum, the Thyssen, the Puerta del Sol… and now they have a musical they can understand. It’s like the producer of Hoy I Can’t Get Up told me, “What the fuck is that?”
Q The musical ended you are out.
R. I wasn’t talking about the musical, I was talking about the song.
Q OK. Then tell me something about the musical.
R. There were two producers and there was a huge conflict between them. I took the side of the person who, in my opinion, leaned more towards the artistic side. I thought it was a musical that was already making enough profit to squeeze out something that was already doing well. That became a series of stories and it went from there. I insisted that this musical be made, that the Rialto cinema be converted into a theater and that it be called the Mecano musical, but they didn’t allow it. Everything was positive on an artistic level and what it meant for the world of musicals and Gran Vía. It was number 1 in Spain and Mexico. When there is money, conflicts arise in musicals, marriages and friends. There was a lot of money involved.
A moment from the musical “Malinche”.
Q Why wasn’t it called Musical de Mecano?
R. The manager, Rosa Lagarrigue, and the others from Mecano didn’t want to [José María Cano y Ana Torroja].
Q Rosa Lagarrigue said in this newspaper that she still dreams of the reunification of Mecano.
R. The Mecano meeting is a dream for many people. The group’s career ended at the moment of its greatest success. We were already successful in Spanish and French and still had English left. If we had managed to record in English, I’m sure more than one song would have been a hit. It is a race decided not by the public but by ourselves. It’s a bit like the story of the musical Today I Can’t Get Up Because There’s Success and Money. But come on, it’s the story of marriages and humanity. For humans, when things are harder and worse for us, we get along better, and when everything is fine, we mess up.
Q Are you related to the other members?
R. All these years were so intense that each of us moved to a different country and that was it. Nothing.
Q Would the Mecano meeting be a dream for you too?
R. There was a time when it was possible, but now it is impossible.
Q Not for all the money in the world?
R. Well, there’s a number… About one hundred million euros, and you could see that [risas].
Q In Malinche there is a song, Baptism, which was performed in an audience before the Pope. Because?
R. It is a song that is sung in the musical at the time when the mass baptism of women takes place. They are the 20 slaves that the Mayans give to Hernán Cortés and one of them is Malinche. It is a song that I think is appropriate to perform at baptisms because baptism is a sacrament for which there is no song. I presented it to the Pope to get his approval and I had it.
Q He says Malinche is a work about “the birth of the mestizos.”
R. The idea for this musical came to me when I moved to Miami in 2010. There I observed what miscegenation is. The power of mestizaje already goes beyond what Latin America is. The United States is absolutely impacted on every level by what happened to the Spanish and Aztecs and everyone who lived through that history. On the streets of Miami I saw people with indigenous features named García, Fernández, Pepe and Antonio. That piqued my interest. There was an origin: Malinche’s son with Hernán Cortés. I thought it was a very nice story.
Q The musical is a love story in which Malinche’s subordination by Hernán Cortés is not discussed. There are essays like “When Moctezuma Met Cortés” by historian and anthropologist Matthew Restall, which show that miscegenation was an exercise of power and sexual subordination.
R. I was not present. I did my analysis with a lot of research that I did. You can watch it in the Netflix documentary for the musical. I stuck with the part that interests me, which is that of celebration, miscegenation and love. I also don’t know if Jesus Christ made 5,000 loaves of bread. The artist takes up a historical moment and makes a suggestion. My suggestion is that there are more things that unite us than divide us. The merger of Mexico is important.
Q Malinche was criticized for his proposal.
R. I can imagine that the newspaper you work for also receives criticism.
Q All the time, but here the criticism is yours.
R. I knew I would get criticism. When I address one of the most controversial topics, I know I will receive it. Some make more sense, others don’t. I received criticism from El País like that of Isabel Bueno [historiadora especializada en antropología de América] and now she is my girlfriend. He got into musicals. Many people first criticized me, then learned about the work and became sympathetic. The case of El País criticism is good because I have been criticized from an anthropological point of view and I don’t bring it up. I don’t try to describe the situation exhaustively. I’ll take a fact and suggest. Like in a song. It is an exaltation of a moment of beauty. I am almost convinced that the Aztecs did not dance flamenco, that they sang pop music and harmonies, that they did not dance urban music… My intention is to highlight the good things about this story, because it is, that will make a difference The public wants to live longer and be happier. That’s my goal, be it with this, another musical or a song.
Nacho Cano in the Malinche tent at IFEMA.Álvaro García
Q Some criticisms of El País have been voiced by historians and essayists such as Pau Luque, a researcher in legal philosophy at the National Autonomous University of Mexico.
R. I don’t know if it was because of this article or another, but you made me green. No problem. In El País you have given me good and bad in 40 years of career. I do not have a problem.
Q In this article, the essayist writes that “Cortés rejected Malinche as a performer and sexual subordinate and handed her over to another Spanish conquistador.”
R. Cortés never sold Malinche. There was a time when his relationship with her ended and another person who was with him placed her with him. I don’t know exactly how the story went. What I know is that before Cortés, Malinche was enslaved and sexually abused, in the workplace and at every level. Cortés baptized her, made her his mistress, and made her his mistress. Find out if he didn’t put a hat on it on a day when it wasn’t sunny, well, I don’t know. Possible.
Q The researchers criticize that the musical glosses over the history of Spanish imperialism.
R. This is true. I’m trying to understand the good part of the story. There are many people responsible for bringing evil to light. And generally with poor historical accuracy. [Silencio]. There’s a line I say in a song: “The universe was born from an explosion.” OK? The beauty in the universe comes from an explosion. I equate this with the birth of Mexico. That is, Mexico was born from an explosion. But do the people who criticize me know what happened in Mexico before the Spanish? For example, did you know that the Aztecs only made up 2% of the population? What had they subjected the rest to? Did you know that there used to be flower wars, that they were wars that were fought because people were needed for human sacrifice? Did you know that children and women were sacrificed? Did you know that they ate those who were sacrificed? The Spanish don’t come there and perform regional dances… If we count the bad, we start telling the bad long before. That’s why I don’t say anything bad. I’ll tell you the good stuff. I wasn’t born to tell the bad things. I have no interest in people leaving here depressed. There are already a lot of people doing this in your newspaper and other newspapers. Fantastic! And be careful, I have great respect for El País. Historically support art and culture. Probably the most timely.
Q Malinche was born with another controversy: the granting by the Madrid City Council of the huge plot of land of 19,500 square meters for the construction of a theater and the erection of a 29-meter-high Aztec pyramid.
R. This was a space controlled by Ciudadanos, Ayuso’s deadly enemies. When they found out that I had to soundproof everything in a pyramid building for the musical, there was a movement that took advantage of that fact to use me. I don’t know the ending that well. They protested so I wouldn’t do it, and then I came here [Ifema].
Q Finally he stepped back.
R. Clear. Because if there’s a place they don’t want me, then I’m not there.
Q He once said, “Criticism makes me horny.” Does it still happen to you?
R. No, let’s see… I didn’t say that exactly. It was written that way, but I should have said I wasn’t breaking down. I was joking. But from then on, of course, they call me and say that criticism makes me horny… Anyway, criticism means that you stand out and I don’t break down. I like constructive criticism because it values what you do. I don’t think anyone with the millions of records sold and my long career is doing anything wrong. This criticism, where you do everything wrong, is really bad. I can’t believe it. It’s a criticism that has more to do with the other person’s salary than with your work.
Q Do you consider yourself a target of this kind of destructive criticism?
R. Yes. And I will continue to be that way.
A moment from the musical “Malinche”.
Q Are you worried?
R. Well, it is what it is. The world is a mixture of good and evil. Luckily, a lot of people like you because 200,000 people have seen this musical, but there are others who don’t. You have other options. That’s it.
Q Do you think that some of these criticisms have to do with your relationship with Isabel Díaz Ayuso, whom you describe as the “savior of Spain”?
R. When theaters in the West End, Broadway, Australia and Cirque du Soleil closed, Ayuso held on to the expectation of opening them. I had been fighting with my investors for eleven years and had a lot of people on my payroll, and thanks to his work I didn’t have to lay them off. When he gave me the medal [del Arte y la Cultura de Madrid], I thanked her for that. And that was a great sin for some ideological sectors. Now it seems that you have to think, speak and act the way people say. I think, act and do what I think I have to do.
Q Are you referring to the ideological sector of the left?
R. The left isn’t quite so left anymore. I can very well identify with the left that existed in the eighties. With the dialogic and intelligent left. With Felipe González, Alfonso Guerra and even Julio Anguita. What exists now is not that. These were intelligent and honest people, and what they said was very consistent with what they did. They said what they thought and what they thought was very true. I don’t want to comment now. I have an audience left and right. The politics is not very strong. But since you asked me about the left, I have to tell you that this left seemed more permissive, more open to dialogue, more elegant and much more positive for the rest of society that was not left. I liked it more. Maybe they’ll crucify me for this now. Does not matter. I’ll stick with Felipe, Alfonso, Julio and even Carrillo. Pay attention to what I tell you.
Q Can’t you identify with the current left?
R. No, that doesn’t matter. I won’t talk about left and right. The only thing I can say is that the only person I would put my hand in the fire for today because what he says and does is coherent is Ayuso. I’m not talking about right, left or center. I have my own political thoughts. I have lived a lot and traveled a lot. I have lived in Miami for ten years with many references from Cuba, Venezuela, etc. For me the most important thing is the people. I have more people from the left than from the right in my cast. And they are respected for the talent they show. That’s what I want them to do to me. That they valued me for my art, my effort or my energy. Because you can climb from the left or from the right. Because if there was a left-wing asshole up there, would you be left-wing? Well, no, boy. If you say, “Even though I’m an asshole, I’m left-wing.” Well, boy, no. What you are is not a leftist, you are an asshole. Let’s not be so torturous. Let’s value people. That’s enough to keep the economy going, there are jobs, freedoms are respected, people are happy and the city is developing. It’s worth it to me. Whether left or right.
Q Is help worth it?
R. At the moment he is the only one who gives me guarantees.
Q Are you saying that as a citizen?
R. His own group tried to kill him but couldn’t. He defends very good values for Madrid and the city is in an impressive state. It’s not just me who thinks that.
A moment from the graphic screening of “Malinche”, the musical by Nacho Cano. FERNANDO VILLAR (EFE)
Q Aren’t you afraid to talk openly about politics? This is hard to see with musicians and in the world of culture in general.
R. Because they won’t allow it. Because how powerful it is that a person who has shown as much as she can’t say that I like her. The dictatorship we live in is very strong. This dictatorship is very similar to Franco’s. A lot. You can no longer say what you want or think how you want. There are some patterns that force you to behave in a certain way. That’s why I don’t identify with people who are on that wavelength. What we are experiencing right now is not freedom.
Q Do you really believe that there is no freedom?
R. Yes.
Q And compared to Franco, as you say? Among other things, you can vote for Ayuso at any time, and with Franco there was no option to vote.
R. Man, I gave an extreme example. Yes, I want to say that it is not freedom. I was very young with Franco and I can’t remember it exactly. I lived after Franco and it was freedom. And not now. The evidence is that he defended Ayuso for keeping the theaters open, which affected some children and their contracts. For me, part of the left caused me to fall off my ass, even threats. That’s not freedom. In the ’80s you said you didn’t like Felipe González or Aznar and no one said anything. I mean the lack of freedom of thought. This one is like Franco’s. Now that the dictatorship and Franco are being criticized so heavily, there are some similarities between them.
Q But you can say whatever you want and you can continue to run your business, your musical in the theater, your career as a musician… that didn’t happen with Franco. Do you mean that he is inhibited when speaking? Because I don’t believe it.
R. I don’t feel unsafe. I will continue to be myself even if they criticize me, exclude me, don’t give me subsidies and try to do things to me that I won’t tell you about. I will continue to be myself. Now there is no freedom. Now it’s a deviation. We are currently suffering from a dictatorship for artists.
Q Who is Nacho Cano?
R. I don’t know who I am, but I know who I’m not. I am a person who is friends with my friends and values people over ideologies and nonsense. Some people are born black, some white, and some red, but they are born neither left nor right. And I am someone who believes that the desperation we currently live in in this country is not good for him.
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