Posted at 5:00 am.
Let's dive in. Are the doors of Parliament really open to rebels, to those who want to change the existing order?
Claudel Pétrin-Desrosiers : Do they have their place in parliament? Surely. Do you have enough space to express yourself at the moment? I think that the Parliamentary Act restricts certain expressions of opinion in order to respect the established order. Without the rebels, we lose a lot through the exchange and mixing of ideas.
Helene David : Are we creating enough space for them? NO. Especially in established parties. [Dans certaines formations politiques], it's a bit like walking into a chamber of commerce. I'm exaggerating here…
Veronique Laflamme : Barely !
Helene David : Before I got into politics, I was a university professor. It's a very individualistic role. When you come to a party or a caucus, you are in a machine. I realized that someone who has always lived his life with a fairly individual thought must then think [en groupe] and that there is a whole system set in motion around the leader.
Cedric Dussault : I haven't been to Parliament very often, but every time I go I'm struck by how much it feels like we're still in the 19th century. There is a decency that makes no sense given the representativeness of the people. We call it the people's house, but we feel that people have no place. When we go to parliamentary committees in social movements, we also feel incredible condescension.
Veronique Laflamme : That is also the whole question of so-called representative democracy. If we look at all parliamentarians and especially the people who form the government compared to the entire population, we have come a long way [de la réalité]. And it is this feeling of separation that is causing great outrage these days, for example when it comes to housing.
Claudel Pétrin-Desrosiers : We talk about representativeness, but we can also represent the voice or interests of a population without belonging to that community. I think there is also something that becomes specific to the person taking on a role, a function.
Marcos Ancelovici : You don't have to be a member of a community to talk about that community's interests. On the other hand, the problem is that these communities themselves can never express what they consider important. If we look at the National Assembly, it is super homogeneous. We have almost no workers. There are almost no immigrants. These people need to be in government and in places of power, and we need to stop speaking on their behalf.
Louise Harel: I have always dreamed of a parliamentary system where MPs sit in alphabetical order. It would make all the difference. Sitting in alphabetical order requires extreme but exciting arrangements. Currently the layout of the Blue Room is [nous place en adversaires].
Helene David : I would definitely agree with that!
Louise Harel : I remember when I came into politics, there were eight of us women [122] MPs. Liberal Thérèse Lavoie-Roux told me that her group wanted her to oppose Marc-André Bédard. [alors ministre de la Justice]who had decided to Dr. No longer pursuing Henry Morgentaler [NDLR : qui pratiquait comme médecin des avortements, ce qui le mettait à risque à l’époque d’aller en prison]. However, Ms Lavoie-Roux agreed with Bédard's decision. She did not represent the voice of opposition to Salon Bleu. When that happens, it's very disarming. I also voted against laws from my party. You have to accept that there is a price to pay. I tell myself that this is courage. And we lack courage in our society.
Marcos Ancelovici: Apart from how people dress or speak, it is very difficult to enter the National Assembly as a political rebel on the issues you raise. There are many necessary obstacles that make this unlikely [que ça arrive]. And once there, the control mechanisms exclude people or push them to adopt positions that converge toward the center.
Do you have the impression that many people who question the established order have this perception? That they assume that their impact on society is greater in social movements than on the benches of the Salon Bleu?
Louise Harel : Not only does one not prevent the other, but also that one is extremely dependent on the other. There would have been no equal pay law if there had not been a trade union and community movement that formed a coalition. This must then be passed on to Parliament. This is extremely important. When I was in politics, I said: I am a traveling salesman. That means I try to work with people in the neighborhood to turn problems into projects [pour les amener ensuite avec moi à Québec pour trouver du financement].
Veronique Laflamme : I think that political actions are carried out with social movements and that if there is no mobilization on the streets, there is a good chance that concerns will never be raised or heard in the National Assembly.
Catherine Gauthier : I really like the idea that we need an ecosystem to change society, make it fairer and more equitable. When it comes to climate, this is definitely the case. On the other hand, I have also heard and felt the frustration of those who feel helpless. Claudel and I intervened when the Quebec government set up working groups to develop the green economy plan. Many of our recommendations were completely rejected. Even during this very institutionalized process, very privileged, very close to power, I don't remember feeling like we had influence or that we were being listened to.
Claudel Pétrin-Desrosiers : In my opinion, the lack of dynamism outside of election periods leads to stagnation. Members succeed by working very hard to achieve certain progress, but it is very difficult work. When you come of age, when you know that it will last four years, it becomes very disengaging and demobilizing.
Marcos Ancelovici : We could have revocable mandates. Challenge a mandate and ensure that MPs cannot do what they want for four years.
Louise Harel : Phew… As they say, hell is full of good intentions. This is a good intention, but what does it lead to? There are so many reforms that wouldn't have happened if there had been revocable mandates. Of course, sometimes I go against the party line. When I was elected, I called it the dictatorship of the party line. But oh, how many anti-women reforms wouldn't have happened [sans ça]. It's complex.
For the sake of brevity, the statements have been shortened and condensed.