Giovanni Terzi April 26, 2022
«Putin has unleashed an unprecedented, egregious and unmotivated war against Ukraine. Of course, the Russian president is no stranger to this kind of aggression, since the August 1999 Yeltsin-ordered conflict in another breakaway region, Chechnya. At that time Putin was already a minister and a few months later, on December 31, 1999, he became president ». Who speaks is Margaret BoniverItalian politics, now President of the Bettino Craxi Foundation, former Minister of Immigration and Italy Abroad in 1991 with Prime Minister Giulio Andreotti, elected to Parliament, Senate Chamber and European Parliament, in the ranks first of the PSI and then of Forza Italia.
videos on this topic
Honorable One, tell me that this desire to rebuild the old Soviet Union was always a Putin project?
“Yep. We remember the operations against the Chechen guerrillas up until 2009. The Chechen capital of Grozny (meaning ‘the terrible’ in Russian, a name imposed by the tsars after a war in previous centuries) was almost entirely destroyed by Russian bombing razed to the ground: a model for what Putin later did in Aleppo, Syria, and for what he is doing in Ukraine.Using unlimited force and even bribing some Chechen leaders to get them on their side.Putin managed to win a seemingly intractable conflict It is important to remember that the second Chechen war violated the agreements signed after the first war and was sparked by attacks in Moscow that left hundreds dead, but even in this case argued many observers, including human rights defender Sergei Kovalev and former KGB agent Aleksandr Litv inenko that it was the FSB, the Russian secret service, the successor to the Soviet KGB, to which Putin belonged for 16 years, planting bombs on civilian buildings. All this in order to then accuse the “Chechen terrorists” and arouse this indignation in the Russian population and have an excuse to start a new war with harsher methods than before. It is estimated that in the second Chechen war there were between 50,000 and 80,000 dead ».
A project that starts from afar, that is, Putin’s?
“We remember Georgia in 2008. The similarities are striking. A pro-Western government, democratically elected in Tbilisi instead of a pro-Russian one, had asked to join NATO to protect itself from the Moscow threat. Putin responded by invading two autonomous Georgian regions, Abkhazia and South Ossetia, which had been in intermittent conflict since the days of the USSR, officially citing the need to protect the populations of the two regions from Russian-majority discrimination against Georgians as the reason for the intervention Government. Even today, Putin’s narrative to rid Ukraine of Nazism is completely unjustified and therefore rather criminal.”
Do I understand that you are with Ukraine?
“Without a doubt. I stand with the people who have been attacked and who stoically resist the furious attacks, represented by a President, Zelesky, who is demonstrating his human, political and military worth on the ground. The problem that Putin is faced, the danger of Ukraine joining NATO is absolutely worthless ».
Because?
“Because everyone knew that Ukraine would never join the Atlantic Pact and that in reality the Russian President had a desire to build a Bielo-Ukraine with a strategically important Black Sea exit.”
In your opinion, is there a risk of a world war with Putin’s use of nuclear power?
“Unfortunately. I don’t currently see any negotiations that could lead to a ceasefire. I don’t feel a deep will and I fear it will be a long and bloody fight. Let’s recall that Putin succeeded in amending the constitution that would allow him to To remain in power in 2032. Thirty-two years of absolute power: like Xi Jinping, who has already commanded China since 2012 and is now president for life ».
The war is not bringing the desired results to Putin at the moment, why?
“He underestimated the compactness of Europe and the heroism of the Ukrainian people and their president.”
Why this underestimate?
“Because after Biden and America pulled out of Afghanistan, he thought the western world was much more fragile.”
You mentioned Biden. A president who doesn’t have much consensus, either internally or abroad. Very different from the America that Craxi challenged in Sigonella’s Night…
“It was October 1985 and there was a real confrontation between Vam (Military Armed Vigilance), the Italian Carabinieri and the Delta Force that could provoke a deep diplomatic crisis. Bettino did not want to bow to the American arrogance, which wanted to kidnap Achille Lauro, who was taken hostage by the Palestinians, and later hand over the terrorists from the Middle East and surround the American Delta Force men in Sigonella. I followed this event very closely because I was in charge of the Socialist Party’s foreign department ».
How did it end?
“Formally, with two letters between Craxi and Reagan, both of which began with a ‘Dear Bettino’ from the American President and ‘Dear Ron’ from the Italian leader. In reality, many historians and political analysts defined this moment as the rupture of a pact between Italy and the United States, which then led to the end of the First Republic and Tangentopoli ».
By the way: In your opinion, you still have to be pro-American today in order not to overthrow the government?
«I would like to put the question differently: not so much pro-American, but pro-Atlantic. Let’s be honest, Italy has no discernible foreign policy, apart from belonging to NATO and the European Union, and it seems to me that there have not been any particular turns of a government in recent years. The only moment was in 2013 when the 5 Star Movement received an avalanche of votes in the political elections. It was only in this case that Beppe Grillo’s movement began to hint at unacceptable alliances like that with Maduro’s Venezuela, in addition to the fact that the then Honorable Manlio Di Stefano, now Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, made a proposal to leave NATO. Finally, Xi Jinping’s proposed alliance with China”.
And what do you think of Minister Di Maio?
«To date, Di Maio, supported by a formidable machine from Fornesina, has moved towards a political line that I think is very correct. Now we just have to hope that all this will not be called into question until the next political vote in 2023.
Are you afraid of anything?
“Not so much as long as there is a solid guarantor like President Sergio Mattarella, who has always kept a very close eye on foreign policy.”
So nothing different than when Bettino Craxi was there?
“In reality, the vision of Mediterranean policy that Craxi and Andreotti had was missing today. But then came Tangentopoli … ».
Yes, Tangentopoli: How did you experience this moment?
“It was a judicial execution of a political ruling class and, above all, of a party, the socialist. Illegal party funding was known to exist, and it affected everyone from left to right. It was decided to hit one political force in particular, the socialist “.
After Craxi, wasn’t there a way to find someone to take over the Socialists?
“First, it was impossible to find a leader right away. Bettino’s leadership and charisma were unparalleled. In addition, it must be remembered that since the beginning of Tangentopoli, every personality, even local, who appeared in the limelight was immediately examined ».
She was always very close to Craxi.
«The turning point was my meeting with Bettino Craxi. It all started as a friendship, a bond between our families. We spent the holidays together and Bettino and his wife were the first to visit me in the hospital when my daughter Caterina was born. Then Craxi asked me to look after Amnesty International to understand what this organization was as I spoke good English. It all started from there ».
At that time, PSI had two secretaries.
«Two unionists, Benvenuto and Del Turco, who also ordered a fatwa for the Craxians, but it was unthinkable that anything would be rebuilt. Furthermore, when Craxi was in Hammameth, he was not questioned by any prosecutor ».
You were the first immigration minister in the Andreotti-Craxi government: do you think that a unified immigration policy can be imagined today?
“No, it is also impossible that there is a one-size-fits-all response to mass immigration, which always represents economic and health fatigue for our country. Hence the need for a variety of different actions. However, I would like to warn politicians: voters must not be fooled into believing that there may be a definitive solution to this very complex issue ».
