He, Claudio Bisio, has just started walking again after an operation on his left hip. His debut film The Last Time We Were Kids celebrates its first step on July 20th at the Giffoni Film Festival. The release is scheduled for October 16, the 80th anniversary of the Nazi raid on the Rome ghetto. It is a debut at the age of 66 full of emotion and inspiration. Claudio puts down his crutches, sits down on a cup of coffee and smiles when I ask about a career choice that has matured in stages.
“As an actor, I just started playing roles as a father. I said to myself: Before they offer me the role of a grandfather, I have to find alternatives.”
“I am facing the third part of my life. As an actor, I started playing father roles a while ago. I said to myself: Before I’m offered grandfather roles, I have to find alternatives. I wasn’t thinking about directing but about producing because I founded the Solea company with my wife Sandra Bonzi. I was looking for stories to make documentaries, feature films and feature films. Sandra has read Fabio Bartolomei’s book, which has the same title as the film. He recommended it to me, he blew me away. The lightness of children combined with a tragic theme: World War II, Shoah. I bought the rights with the idea to produce the film. I’ve been looking for a director for a long time. After two or three interludes, co-producers Massimo Di Rocco offered me to direct Bartleby and Giampaolo Letta to direct Medusa. There wasn’t even a script. It took me a few months to learn, I agreed. Friendly and competent people gathered around me like Italo Petriccione, cameraman, and Leopoldo Pescatore, assistant director. It is a journey that has taken 4 years.”
So kids. The three of them leave Rome on foot in search of their Jewish friend Riccardo, who was “stolen by the Germans”. The horror of the Holocaust is made even more incomprehensible by the clueless looks of the protagonists…
“A monstrosity. One of them, Italo, is a Balilla. In the first scene he spits in the face of the Jewish boy. why are you spitting on me Riccardo asks. Because you’re a Jew, Italo replies. But like, I’m your friend and you spit on me? Here it may be politically incorrect to offer such an image, but the horror lies precisely in this approach. A child might take it for granted to treat a Jew as inferior. Because he heard it at home, at school, everywhere.”
“I don’t like stripped down stories where the bad becomes good in the finale… The two female characters in the film?” WOMEN ARE HETER, OF COURSE. ESPECIALLY VANDA. ACCEPT ITALO AS CAPOGITA BUT IN REALITY SHE IS IN COMMAND» – Claudio Bisio with his wife Sandra Bonzi. They married on August 23, 2003 and have two children: Alice and Federico, ages 25 and 27
Italo, Cosimo and Vanda follow the train idea to get to Germany. Vittorio, the brother of Italo, a fascist centurion, and Agnese, the nun who took Vanda into the orphanage, also went in search of them. Children losing their innocence, adults losing their faith. Is it a double trip?
“I hope that aspect will be covered. I don’t like obvious stories where the bad guy ends up becoming the good guy. The contrast between Vittorio and Sister Agnese is very strong at the beginning. It wears off at a dramatic moment. We wondered if we could spark an attraction between them, I even voted for a possible kiss. Luckily, Fabio Bonifacci, an experienced and astute screenwriter, has led us all to a higher and more sober path, where it is the understanding of the other and the tenderness that keeps him close while he thinks he will die after a few hours. ”
Italo has a caricature father; Cosimo’s father is in prison, Vanda never knew her parents. Does the film contain criticism, even self-criticism, of the figure of the head of the family?
“Oh well. Unconsciously yes».
Speaking of Podestà, Italo’s father: as an actor you only allowed yourself one scene with a joke about your Milanese belief in it. A way to remember who you are? Bisio, someone who doesn’t take himself and who shouldn’t be taken too seriously.
“Is correct. I congratulate myself on this scene. It’s tender and funny, I defended it with my teeth. Just remember someone asked me if Milan existed in 1943. Not to mention sixth place in the championship. As a Milan fascist, I wanted to torment my son, a Roman and a Romanist, in real suffering.”
“They only offer me comedy, I have trouble reading the scripts… I don’t deny anything I’ve done in the past, but repeating things I’ve already said in some way pulls me not on.”
The two female characters, Sister Agnese and Vanda, are more rational, authoritarian and emancipated. That’s the way the world works, in every family. Including yours?
“Including mine, yours, right?” Sure, women are more straight. Especially Vanda. She accepts Italo as her boss, but in reality she’s the boss.”
A modern story. For example, when it suggests that in order to grow, one must leave the comfort and protection of a concerned parent. Is the message wanted?
“This is an initiatory journey that involves a certain risk, the fear of a false encounter, of the dark.” It would always be necessary to face it, even if the pandemic has pushed many young people in the opposite direction, namely in isolation. Here, between absent fathers and mothers far removed from the present, there is a condition conducive to discovery. In the end, new experiences strengthen you.”
“When my parents split up, I was like a twenty-year-old kid. I understood that something serious was happening in the family and decided to quit military service early.
But you, when was the last time you were a kid?
“Mah… Maybe when my parents split up. I was a twenty-year-old boy, a little tall. Realizing that something serious was going on in the family, I decided to bring forward my military service and then leave home and continue working. After all, my two children, Alice and Federico, aged 25 and 27, live outside of Italy, but this is their base, the place where they grew up.”
Two Oscar-winning films about the relationship between childhood and the Holocaust: Life is Beautiful by Benigni and Jojo Rabbit by Waititi. Differences? Similarities?
“You mean: all good things come in threes? Come on, I’m kidding. I have seen and studied a number of works on this subject. With Paola Comencini, the set designer, we thought about what dominant colors to give to the scenes to understand how to tell a fairy tale. about objects that should be given into the hands of children, about mistakes that should be avoided. Italo and Cosimo gave a high-five on set. Here, no, stop it. But I wanted to keep their naturalness. In one scene they are playing soccer and Cosimo is doing a kind of double step. All in all; impossible, the double step was invented by Cristiano Ronaldo. Not at all: Cosimo invented it in 1943. Ronaldo must have copied it.”
“I haven’t had this much fun in years.” Is the quote from Bentivoglio’s joke on the Marrakech Express a homage to Salvatore’s?
“Yes, buddy. Gabriele doesn’t know, I hope he notices as a spectator. The kids didn’t understand why I persevered this year ».
“The true enemy is the one who gets rich from war, no matter what kind.” The sentence comes from Bartolomei’s book. Does that also apply to the war in Ukraine?
“You are right to quote that sentence. Like the film, the book was written before the conflict broke out. I kept a photo taken in Kiev: children with wooden guns in the windows. Unfortunately, the film is up-to-date for this as well.”
Fascism, Race Laws, Holocaust. There are those who deny, those who downplay, those who continue to justify today. More surprised, scared or angry?
“It’s unbearable. I am horrified. To deny or downplay is madness. A boy who has the swastika tattooed on his arm makes an incomprehensible gesture. Those who dress up as Nazis for fun… how sad».
“A comedian from Zelig making a film about the Shoah? It might sound bad. So I can’t wait for people to see it…” “I hope others see the determination, courage and sincerity.”
We’ve known each other for years, I think I can guess what’s on your mind when you look at the world. Did Italo, Cosimo and Vanda make you think of today’s Palestinian children?
“I took a trip to Jordan, where there are many Palestinian refugee camps. I have spoken to them and am afraid that a solution is not possible. Peace is not an option for either the Palestinians or the Israelis.”
Never walk around with children and animals. It’s a maxim for cinema. irrelevant?
“Not much. The hen that the children find on the side of the road caused us various pains. The children, on the other hand, brought wonderful moments. We spent days together before shooting, I was close to them on set as I learned from Dino Risi or Francesco Rosi. Many directors today remain at a distance, tied to the monitor.”
Children Are Left is the title of your show. Confirm?
‘But yes, if you need to lend a hand to show your soul, you’re always ready. Sooner or later they will find a connection between Peter Pan and Che Guevara.”
For twenty years you’ve been repeating: Now I’m doing a gap year. Nobody believes you anymore…
“But I slowed the pace. Also causes a hip replacement. I shot my last film as an actor two years ago. I’m calmer and more relaxed».
Which adults will your children become?
“Beautiful, different from each other, involved in similar endeavors.” Alice is doing an internship in Berlin. She studied political science like her mother. Federico specializes in 3D editing, deals with special effects and video post-production. Somehow he approached my world. Advice? Do you help? Not even talking about it.’
And you? Which adult are you?
“I applied for a pension. An Umarell ready for the road works. Then some projects with Sandra, after twenty years of marriage. Travel, longer than the usual holidays».
Does the decision to make this film also meet the need to reflect and explore in a hectic and superficial time?
“Do less, go deeper, sure. I don’t deny anything of what I’ve done in the past, today I’m only offered comedy and I even have trouble reading the scripts. Oh well. Looker never called me and never will, regardless, but repeating things I’ve sort of said before doesn’t particularly appeal to me. The decision to have surgery was a conscious one, I could have waited. But in the meantime, he allowed me to say a few nos.”
Laugh and make people laugh today. With what clues?
‘I think it’s difficult to find them, to identify avenues and themes that aren’t taken for granted. Look, I want to make a confession about the decision to get involved with directing: I don’t know how the film will be received, by the critics, by the world of cinema, which I’ve always avoided a bit, too because I live in Milan. I just hope my sincerity is understood. A Zelig comedian making a film about the Holocaust? It might sound bad. Because of this, I can’t wait for people to see it and maybe appreciate the courage and desire to start a new chapter in my journey. There is no other, no strategy. Just a beautiful story that I felt was worth telling and, I hope, listening to.”
LIFE – Claudio Bisio, 66, born in Novi Ligure (AL), grew up in Milan. He is married to journalist and writer Sandra Bonzi (58) and has two children: Alice (27) and Federico (25).
CAREER – After starting out at the Piccolo Teatro, where he also worked with the Nobel Prize winner Dario Fo, he decided to go into cinema and since 1983 he has made 58 films and 6 TV series as an actor, also as a voice actor
THE MOVIE – Based on the book of the same name by Fabio Bartolomei (and/or), “The Last Time We Were Children, with the little ones Vincenzo Sebastiani, Alessio Di Domenicantonio, Federico Cesari, Carlotta De Leonardis”, is his first film as a director
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