“Israel is in a state of extreme shock. People are angry at Hamas, which is responsible for an evil crime that has revived something very deep within the Jews: two millennia of persecution and, of course, the Holocaust. Israel should be the country that would put an end to these pogroms. And suddenly they discover that this is not the case. This shocked everyone. They feel threatened by heavily armed men. There was a feeling that things were moving towards peace – I am referring to the Abraham Accords or the negotiations with Saudi Arabia – and that the Palestinian issue was being sidelined. All of this has disappeared in the face of the 1,440 Israelis barbarically murdered by Hamas.”
Tomorrow morning at Columbia University’s Low Memorial Library in New York, Roger Cohen will join a group of colleagues from The New York Times to accept the Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting, awarded for their coverage of the war in Ukraine. What won him over was “The Making of Vladimir Putin,” an extraordinary portrait of the Russian president. But the day after the Hamas massacre, Cohen flew to Israel to report live on the drama in the country. It was in the Negev desert, at the site of the rave that turned into a massacre in which terrorists killed over 250 girls and boys: “When you are there, you still feel everything that happened.” They were young and just wanted to dance.
“There was also a lot of anger at the government – he says on the phone from Tel Aviv – people perceive its incompetence, the distraction to secondary problems such as judicial reform, the settlers in the West Bank should be defended in incidents caused by themselves. This was not only the most right-wing government in Israel’s history, but also the most inept. It is obvious that the responsibility lies with the country’s leaders, especially Prime Minister Netanyahu.”
Will there be a showdown?
“Not now. The investigations, the parliamentary commission of inquiry, the understanding of how Hamas overcame what were considered insurmountable barriers and was able to kill at will for 12 hours, all of that will happen. But now the priority is different: we must be united and put an end to Hamas as a military and political power in Gaza once and for all.”
To what extent will Israel respond to calls to respect international law and avoid excessive civilian casualties?
“It’s tough. The blood is already flowing. There is a desire for revenge. We listened to the language of the Defense Minister who spoke of “animals.” At the same time, Israel remains a democracy with a population that includes Palestinians, the so-called “Arab-Israelis,” who are aware that world opinion fears that an invasion of Gaza will not respect the laws of war, which is what is happening instead exist and democratic societies must respect them. Israel has called on the population in the northern part of the Gaza Strip to evacuate. But it is a very problematic operation. I think Israel is now determined to destroy, eliminate and destroy Hamas at all costs.”
By invading the Gaza Strip in full force, would the Israeli army fall into the trap set by Hamas?
“I don’t think Israel can seriously think about it.” At this moment, the prevailing feeling is “never again.” No more massacres of Jews by Hamas, an organization that explicitly seeks the destruction of the Jewish state in its founding act. Removal can only be done through ground operations.”
When you talk about risks, do you include, in addition to the human costs, the risk of missing any dialogue, a rapprochement with the Arab countries?
“All dialogue will be frozen, at least for some time. The problem is that the only political-diplomatic question that has been forgotten in recent years is the core of the matter: two peoples want to have their state on the same piece of land. And in my opinion, in the real world there is only one solution. Anyone who talks about a confederate state where Israelis and Palestinians live in peace and democracy is talking about La La Land. Today these two peoples can only live in two separate states, where perhaps one day in the distant future what happened between France and Germany could happen and border barriers become irrelevant. But it took a century.
But “two peoples and two states” is the path that Netanyahu has completely delegitimized.
“Exactly. He has cynically worked to strengthen Hamas at the expense of the more moderate Palestinian Authority. As long as Hamas existed, no Palestinian state could exist; Leaders were divided between a radical terrorist group that controlled Gaza and a weakened and corrupt Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. Netanyahu has managed the conflict instead of working to resolve it. A short-sighted and irresponsible tactic. Now we know the price of somehow cajoling Hamas. As long as there is no peace between Israelis and Palestinians in the land area between the Mediterranean and Jordan, outbreaks of violence will continue to occur.”