Dmitro Kuleba (Sumi, 42 years old) is deeply convinced that Ukraine “will prevail”. But as Western support appears to be waning and Russia's war against Ukraine has become a battle of attrition, Volodymyr Zelensky's government insists that support for Kiev is also support for democracy and is trying to instill a sense of urgency among its allies revival was sustained in the first year of the Russian invasion. “Ukraine should be a question of unity, not division,” he stressed in an interview last Thursday at the Foreign Ministry, surrounded by sandbags in the face of a war approaching 700 days. “Ukraine must win this war. Russia must lose. And all political considerations should be focused on achieving this goal,” says the minister, who emphasizes that Putin has no interest in freezing conflict or peace, that everything else is just noise and that none of Ukraine's allies are considering these options put the table. The EU will again debate on February 1 the 50 billion euro financial lifeline for Ukraine that has been blocked by Hungary's Viktor Orbán, while another similar package remains frozen in Washington. Kuleba believes the funds will arrive. “We don’t have a plan B,” he emphasizes.
Questions. We are facing a year with enormous challenges: elections in half the world – in the USA, elections to the European Parliament, in several EU countries. Ukraine and its support are and will remain an important topic in the campaigns. Are you worried that Ukraine will become hostage to political infighting, as we are already seeing in Washington?
Answer. Well, it would be very short-sighted for the political forces of a country to make Russian aggression against Ukraine a topic of internal debate. Because this is not about the Ukraine issue, but about Russian aggression against Ukraine and the entire democratic world. And all democratic forces participating in campaigns and elections should be aware of this. Russia does not know democracy, it does not respect democracy. And if Russia wins, if the Russian political style becomes dominant, there will be no real elections and no real democracy. And that is definitely not what these political forces are looking for. Defeating Russia in Ukraine is in the best strategic interests of European, North American and other nations around the world. So Ukraine should be a question of unity and not division.
Q Do these politicians know this?
R. If we assume that all politicians are smart and think strategically, then they must know, yes.
Q Due to the blockade, mainly by the Republicans, the USA has around 61 billion dollars (55 billion euros) in funds for Ukraine, the approval of which is still pending. What happens if the money doesn't arrive?
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R. We will continue to fight with the means at our disposal because democracy, security and prosperity are at stake for the world. For Ukraine, its very existence as a nation is at stake. If a decision is now made to suspend or withhold support, Russia could succeed and break through the lines due to a lack of resources on the battlefield. Then support must be resumed because there will be a very strong public reaction in favor of supporting Ukraine. And the same politicians who decided to withhold that support will decide to provide it, albeit in extreme circumstances. Therefore, from a rational point of view, from a purely realistic policy, it makes more sense to provide help now in order to avoid a crisis in the future.
Q Due to Hungary's veto, the EU failed to approve 50 billion euros for Ukraine in December. The Union's leadership says the funds will arrive using one formula or another. Do you have confidence in this?
R. I'm pretty confident and interpret events in December a little differently. I don't think this decision was made because of the Hungarian veto. The decision was postponed to try to avoid the Hungarian veto and give an additional month to negotiate and reach agreement on a consensus-based position. However, there is clear understanding and agreement among 26 members, all except Hungary, that this assistance will be provided in one form or another. Let's see how it ends.
/cloudfront-eu-central-1.images.arcpublishing.com/prisa/466PQFAFQBBCJJEKQEN4ELYHP4.jpg "Dmitro Kuleba, Foreign Minister of Ukraine: “Putin does not want a frozen conflict or peace” 3")
Dmitro Kuleba (left) with EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs Josep Borrell (center) in Kiev in October.AP
Q What happens if funds are delayed?
R. Then our finance minister will have to demonstrate the magic of her management again.
Q Do you have a backup plan in case these funds do not arrive?
R. We don't have a plan B. From the outside we may see and think differently, we can talk about plans A, B and C, we can publish articles and analysis documents, but here inside we have to put all the energy and intellectual power into one thing : Implement plan A.
Meeting between Zelensky and Orbán
Q Now examine a meeting between President Volodymyr Zelensky and Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán, who is considered close to Russia.
R. We are working on it, we have proposed a meeting between Orbán and Zelensky to review the agenda and solve all the problems, because if we only talk about Hungary's national interests, I think it is more than obvious that we have a strategy for have a peaceful, democratic future and European Ukraine benefits Hungary. You can talk to Putin, do business with him, but I don't think Hungary would want Russia as a neighbor.
Q Hungary actually does business with Russia and Orbán met with Putin.
R. They do business because that is Prime Minister Orbán's policy. Given that Hungary is the only country in the Union that has a dialogue with Russia at the level of heads of state and government and foreign ministers, I believe that it is the EU's task to analyze how this relates to politics the Union, and not our question.
Q In December, the EU agreed to start accession negotiations with Ukraine. Community institutions are increasingly talking about a gradual integration model for new members. What do you think?
R. Any enlargement of the EU required an effort, there were critical voices that said that this was not the way to develop and that instead of expanding the EU we should strive for deep integration. But each enlargement meant an increase in Europe's prosperity and security. And now we're back on the same ground. Ukraine is a major player, a big country, and there is a difference between integrating a smaller country and a larger one. But if we look at this expansion in commercial terms, Ukraine is a large market that contributes greatly to the promotion of European industry and is also the guardian of Europe's eastern flank. It is good to discuss the effects of integration. Accession is a question of commitments. A balance needs to be found between the existing rules and practices and the new member, but I am sure that the strategic benefits that Ukraine's accession to the EU will bring will outweigh any negative voices.
Q Would Ukraine be open to any of these forms of gradual integration, for example initially the internal market and other programs and moving to full membership?
R. We do not accept quasi-membership, suspended membership, or any Plan B membership. To be fair, however, membership means participation in decision-making – in the European Commission, in Parliament and in all other structures – and access to the Common Market is already included in our Association Agreement with the Union. You can be within the EU and not a member of the Schengen area or the monetary union. The nature of the EU envisages some gradual integration, but we will not accept alternative scenarios without access to the internal market and without political participation, which are at the core of the concept of membership.
Q Do you have a schedule?
R. People like to make plans, but you know the saying: When people make plans, God laughs.
Fire in an apartment building in Kiev as a result of the Russian attack on January 2nd, one of the worst missile and drone offensives on the capital.Libkos (Getty Images)
Q Recently we read about Russia's alleged intentions to freeze the conflict and that Putin wants to negotiate. Is it a way to send a message to Ukraine to surrender?
R. Putin wants neither a frozen conflict nor peace. Those who propose a frozen conflict argue that they are acting in the best interests of Ukraine and the world, but in reality they are helping Putin and ignoring what today's Russia is. Between 2014 and 2022 [durante la guerra de Donbás, en el este] We have held almost 200 rounds of talks with Russia, which was already a de facto frozen conflict. We tried it. We agreed and announced 20 ceasefires and endless negotiations ended with Putin's full-scale invasion. There are wars in which one side must win and the other must lose. And Russian aggression against Ukraine is such a war. Ukraine must win. Russia must lose. And all political thinking should focus on achieving this goal.
Q Have any of your allies suggested freezing the conflict?
R. It is not on the table, our allies are not asking us to negotiate with Russia to freeze the war, neither when we sit with the delegations nor in closed meetings in a reduced format. It's not something anyone can put on the table as an option. The rest is just noise.
Q The EU and G-7 are moving forward with drawing up a plan that would allow Ukraine to benefit from frozen Russian assets, but some countries still have many legal doubts about it. Is it just a debate or will Ukraine end up receiving these funds to finance reconstruction?
R. It will 100% happen, the question is to what extent, because there are three elements: the frozen assets themselves, the gains from the assets and taxes on those gains. But it will happen because it makes sense that Russia should pay. And there are enough frozen assets to begin rebuilding Ukraine. We estimate that the total amount of frozen assets represents more than 80% of our recovery needs. We can rebuild schools, hospitals and infrastructure at the expense of the country that destroyed them.
Q Will it happen before the war ends?
R. You can't get everything in one day, it takes a process. I believe that the first funds from these frozen assets will arrive before the end of the war, but we need to build a comprehensive system to resolve legal issues, financial mechanisms and transparency. It is a complicated legal, regulatory and financial instrument. But although some have doubts, this decision must be made because it is the most natural decision of all.
Q The EU has approved 12 sanctions packages, the US has its own, but you have stated that Western-made parts and components were found in weapons Russia used to attack Ukraine. Why does it keep happening?
R. This happens thanks to sanctions evasion programs. Unfortunately, Russia has created opportunities to source spare parts and some materials it needs for its defense industry – including missile and drone production – from various parts of the world, including European and North American countries. We are working very hard with our partners to close this route. It is shameful to see that Russia still manages to evade sanctions when supplying spare parts. It must build rockets and rockets that it fires at Ukraine, destroying our infrastructure, and the countries of origin of those parts must then help Ukraine restore and rebuild that infrastructure. We have to break this vicious circle. I am not saying that these countries are turning a blind eye to Russia, to Russian purchases or to the supply of these spare parts due to purely commercial activities, but the governments of the countries must increase their efforts to close these escape routes.
Peace Conference in Latin America
Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmitro Kuleba emphasizes the importance of communicating with Latin America.
Questions. President Zelensky visited Argentina. What are relations like with Latin America, where there are several countries with good relations with Russia since the Soviet era?
R. I'll look at it from a broader perspective. We have a case of war. In the coalition there are more than 50 members who support Ukraine, and there are four or five members in the coalition who openly support Russia. The combined GDP of Ukraine and its allies is 21 times higher than that of Russia and its allies. The strength is obvious. And then there are dozens of countries in between that behave differently and have their own understanding of balance and neutrality. And even within Latin America there are countries with different understandings. And there is something that we usually see: when the Ukrainian army does well on the front line and pushes the Russians back, the countries in intermediate positions prefer not to openly remember their attitude towards Russia, but to turn their backs on it. Ultimately, the position of most of these intermediate countries depends on the situation on the battlefield. Therefore, I see that the driving force of world politics today is the Ukrainian soldiers, because if they do well on the battlefield, even more countries will turn to us. If not, they stay where they are and show their ties to Russia. My job as Secretary of State is also to ensure that this soldier has everything he needs to perform well in the field.
Q There is talk of a peace conference in the region. Is the idea progressing?
R. President Zelensky's visit to Argentina and Latin America, the first by a Ukrainian leader in decades, is a clear reminder that we value the relationship with this region and seek a respectful and mutually beneficial partnership. And we will continue this visit to Argentina, where President Zelensky met with the leaders of Paraguay and Uruguay and we work with Brazil. And we will continue to work with them to encourage their attitude and not to make them dependent solely on the situation on the battlefield, but to make them understand that Ukraine's victory is in their strategic interest, because what Ukraine is defending, What they are fighting for are things that Latin Americans can understand very well: respect for borders, respect for sovereignty and resolving conflicts through peaceful means. This is the universal language that the people of Latin America understand very well.
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