Margaret Brennan was among a small group of reporters who recently traveled to China with Secretary of State Antony Blinken, a trip aimed at defusing simmering tensions with Beijing.
That was reflected in what the Face the Nation anchor and CBS News chief foreign affairs correspondent needed to get a visa to travel: “Until I had that in hand, I wasn’t sure I was going to get anywhere would be “The Secretary of State’s plane,” she said, adding that she was only allowed to stay in the country for seven days.
“That’s all we were able to get and we consider ourselves lucky because the Chinese government has denied entry to journalists not already living in the country, at least not for access to long-term visas,” she said. The channel does have a cameraman who has lived in China for decades, but amid tensions between the two countries, the Beijing government has otherwise restricted access. There is a degree of “nonetheless” here due to U.S. restrictions on access by Chinese state media, Brennan said.
Given that the 2024 presidential candidates are expected to make China a central part of their campaign rhetoric, Brennan said the complexity of the relationship could be lost. “In the American frame of reference, the Cold War with the Soviet Union is often viewed as the ultimate clash,” she said. “And that’s more complicated, more complex, and potentially more dangerous. And I don’t think America fully understands that. The Soviet Union just didn’t have the weight that China had.”
For the season so far, Face the Nation (in the half-hour format) has surpassed its competitors in total viewership and 25-54 demo. Brennan has hosted “Face the Nation” for five years and will soon have a new rival on the show: Kristen Welker, who will take over the helm of NBC News’ “Meet the Press” this fall.
In a recent interview with Deadline, Brennan spoke about tensions in China, concerns about press freedom in foreign reporting and changes in the Sunday morning landscape.
DEADLINE: In your interview with Secretary of State Blinken, he said that he believed the visit had contributed to more stability in US-China relations. To what extent do you think this was undermined when President Biden called Xi Jinping a dictator?
BRENNAN: I remember looking at her and saying, “Oh.” I think there are always public poses, and you certainly see that in Chinese propaganda. You can see that in the very cautious remarks that US officials are also making to the American press. This is a very strained relationship and there is no longer any illusion that America will change China and Biden officials would tell you that. And they accept that there will be such a tense conflict on many, many fronts. And now it’s just a matter of managing it. So it’s not like the United States and China are going to be friends and allies here. So if President Biden said that, I’m sure there were other diplomats who kind of flinched when they heard it. It’s not that it’s not factual, given the increasingly authoritarian nature of the Chinese state. And that’s one of the things that’s actually a concern: the expansion of President Xi’s control over the economy, over business, over access, that’s a problem in some ways for investment and other things… I don’t do that myself think the entire journey has been undermined. I think the United States and China are adversaries. They’re just trying to ease the tension enough to make them competitors, but they’re not friends.
DEADLINE: How different are the press restrictions compared to previous trips you’ve made to China?
BRENNAN: You can talk to people without cameras and maybe get a little more openness, but it’s not like asking on the street, “How do you feel about politics in America these days?” It’s just a completely different environment in terms of surveillance that the government is conducting and people don’t want to risk talking to a journalist per se. I interviewed an American CEO of a healthcare company [who] founded seven different hospitals in China. She has lived there for about 40 years and has witnessed this incredible development of the Chinese economy and Chinese growth. …What worries them is that there is too much rhetoric in the United States, particularly among lawmakers, in their opinion, that describes China as an adversary and justifies US actions such as investing in our own technology sectors in opposition to China as simply a good one Politics that we should be pursuing anyway. The dispute between us and them raises concerns among people who seriously invest in and live in China. …That’s why this is such a complex and complicated relationship, because our economies are so closely intertwined.
DEADLINE: What happens if the US bans TikTok? Wouldn’t that be an escalation of anti-Chinese rhetoric?
BRENNAN: There is also a risk that the Chinese government will miscalculate. American politicians [are trying to gauge] what is happening in the inner circle in China. In Xi Jinping’s office, you’re trying to gauge what’s happening in American politics. Do they misunderstand the noise and take it seriously, the increased drumbeat? So that is also a risk.
We’ve been hearing about TikTok and the national security risks it poses for years. The United States government has not responded. The Trump administration did try to force a change, but it was blocked in court. The Biden administration is trying to see what is possible in terms of a ban. But when it’s a national security threat, policymakers are kind of stuck in responding. …Some of these things just aren’t possible when you’re trying to force the private sector to make a decision about, say, spinning off a division or other types of solutions that are being brought to market. But it’s a problem that many Americans understand because they can see it, play with it, interact with it, and because American parents know their children are addicted to it. And American consumers may be told that by using these remedies they risk being fed propaganda or misinformation… but many American consumers don’t seem to care and continue to use it. …You even see US senators using the app.
DEADLINE: What have you learned about interviewing diplomats like Tony Blinken? You speak very carefully.
BRENNAN: Words are extremely important for diplomats because there is a high risk of being misunderstood. There’s the weight you bring to the conversation as the representative of the President of the United States. … And that is why they speak as carefully as they do. And also [yoiu have to have an] They know that their words are not only being sold to a domestic audience, but that they are speaking around the world and that translation matters and that the precision of your words is paramount. They must also learn to read the state media in places where there is state control, like China, and to understand the extent to which propaganda is written before the meeting actually takes place and to what extent it reflects what happened in the private sphere.
DEADLINE: What concerns do you have about the US media presence in China?
BRENNAN: We have a wonderful cinematographer who has lived there for decades, but when you’re trying to get in as a new correspondent or someone who doesn’t live there yet, it’s extremely difficult. And the reason for that is that you have to have people on site who are able to get acquainted with the local officials and report exactly what they see. This first-hand experience is so important. In my conversations with American diplomats, it turned out that they are indeed pushing for it. It would reflect a certain level of confidence on the part of the Chinese government if it allowed this to happen. …So we’ll see if that opens up, and I know CBS might love to return.
DEADLINE: Kristen Welker will take over NBC News’ show “Meet the Press” this fall. When that happens, all major Sunday programs will either have a woman as the host or co-host.
BRENNAN: It’s wonderful to see more women in this position on Sunday mornings. I think she’s a wonderful person and I’ve known her for years, since I’ve been a White House correspondent. Fox’s Shannon Bream recently took on the role. Dana Bash often performs on Sundays, although she shares airtime with Jake Tapper. Martha Raddatz is also in this rotation [on ABC News’ This Week]. It just goes to show the fact that we can do a really great job given the opportunity and we’re sure to be rewarded with the confidence of the crowds at home. I think representation is definitely important and I don’t think we have to prove ourselves anymore in this job. So I think it’s great. Welcome to Sunday.