Our Flag Means Death launched in March 2022 and saw respectable viewership numbers that continued to grow. And grew. And has grown even more. With each week of the 10 episodes, viewership grew, eventually tripling the original viewership. The small gay pirate workplace and historical fantasy romantic comedy is back for a second season on Max, and fans will be happy to know that piracy power couple Stede Bonnet (Rhys Darby) and Ed Teach, aka Blackbeard (Oscar), (winner Taika Waititi) won’t be apart for long.
In the first season of Our Flag Means Death, viewers were introduced to fictional versions of real-life historical figures Stede Bonnet (aka The Gentleman Pirate) and Blackbeard, as well as their respective crews. The two captains immediately made an unlikely connection. Stede, who chose to overcome his midlife crisis by abandoning his family and going to sea despite being at best a novice at piracy, hero-worships Blackbeard and is thrilled to make his acquaintance. The fearsome Blackbeard, whose real first name is Ed among his friends, is impressed by Stede’s dedication to enjoying the finer and fancier things in life, and marvels at the onboard library and his new friend’s vast, beautiful wardrobe.
While the two captains are an odd couple, each of their crew views the other as a completely different species. Aboard the Revenge, Stede reads his crew bedtime stories and encourages them to use their words when conflicts arise, while Ed’s first mate Izzy Hands (a deliciously scowling, jealous Con O’Neill) rants on Blackbeard’s ship, that his captain is now a shell of the terrible legend he once was. Over time, Blackbeard’s crew begins to appreciate the healthier work-life culture on the Revenge, where there is room for the formation and pairing of romantic and collegial dyads.
Of course, even for a couple as in love as Stede and Ed, the road to true love is never smooth. At the end of the first season, the crews are split between ships and land, and Ed believes that Stede has finally abandoned their relationship in favor of his original family, causing a heartbroken Ed to revert to his fearsome Kraken persona. At the beginning of the second season, Stede desperately tries to get back to Ed and explain to him that he is involved in their relationship. Ed’s behavior has fluctuated erratically from depressed to murderous, even toward Izzy, and when the two captains and crew meet again, there’s a twist: Stede and his companions have been co-opted by the far more capable and successful Chinese pirate queen Zheng Yi Sao (Ruibo Qian). .
On the eve of the three-episode season two premiere, creator and showrunner David Jenkins reflected on the series’ approach to workplace dynamics, male friendships and romance, as well as the character arcs he’s most excited to see among fans.
In the first three episodes of the season premiere, there are a number of separations and rearrangements of romantic and work relationships – not just between Stede and Ed. Were you pursuing something specific narratively by splitting up so many dyads?
Definitely. It’s so interesting to watch how Stede and Blackbeard’s relationship affects everyone’s lives. Their separation affects not only the two of them, but all of them, because they are family. Just as the separation affected both crews, the reunion will do the same.
That makes sense.
The goal was simply to stay true to the beats of the characters and find ways to make them sound authentic. Oluwande (Samson Kayo) and Jim (Vico Ortiz, she/them) are friends turned romantic. It felt like they were watching each other’s lives evolve and then coming back together to find that they still cared about each other and each of them was happy for the other person too. I’ve seen this many times in real life, but I don’t often see it dramatized. I think there should be many different types of relationships in this series. And there are so many different pairings that people often ask, “Oh, how are these two different from Stede and Ed?”
How does this relate to your interest in exploring the tenderness and vulnerability of male characters? You have pointed this out in previous interviews Our flag means death as an examination of the burlesque of masculinity. What does it bring to your work to engage with this over the course of many hours of storytelling?
This is an area where Taika’s and my interests overlap greatly. There’s something so understated about his sensibility – I think it’s partly due to his New Zealand accent – that it fits well with questions about masculinity. And it’s fun to look at pirate stories and push back against the glossed-over, heteronormative conventions of the genre. Growing up a man puts a lot of pressure on you to just be a type of man, the man who refuses to feel things. Men are in terrible trouble this way. We’re getting better at talking about feelings, but there’s so much more to talk about – body dysmorphia, vulnerability, not just talking about feelings but understanding them and having that full range of emotions – those are always the things that I want to see.
Do you have any favorite on-screen stories that leave room for a broader emotional range?
“Heat” and “Midnight Run” are two really beautiful films by Robert De Niro in which the characters have very big emotional lives. It’s a similar story with Robert Redford and Paul Newman in “Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.” I’d like to expand on this. We can push it even further because there are so many different ways to be a man! It doesn’t all have to be a shoot ’em up action thing where people have no feelings. Many men feel like they need permission to just be themselves, be funny, and dress differently. Try different things! Maybe wear a color! Add some product to your hair! Don’t worry about it, everything will be fine. You’ll be fine.
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Our flag means death is not a casual show. It’s very fun and playful! But there isn’t a single image from the show that looks cool. What importance do qualities like sincerity and seriousness have as an artist?
I hate coolness, it’s so ungenerous. And I like that you said it’s not casual. I’m not a casual guy. This is a deeply uncool show. There’s something very special about seeing comedic actors like Rhys or Taika who are so used to coming into a scene, being incredibly funny and destructive, and then leaving it having to use their seriousness and not use their weapon to disperse them immediately by making them laugh. When I see that, it makes my heart skip a beat. There’s something very special about watching a comedic actor do that.
It’s really fun to watch comedic actors dispel the idea that dramatic acting is 180 degrees away from comedic acting.
Characters that require this kind of performance are what I love about the films of Robert Altman, Christopher Guest and Harold Ashby. They’re comedies, but these characters really grow up and experience pain, and the pain they feel is real. And then the funny shit they do is even funnier because of it. These are the things that bring me the most joy.
Tell me about Zheng Yi Sao, the Pirate Queen. She’s such a good contrast to Ed and Stede – their ambition, competence and leadership style are all so different from hers.
Zheng Yi Sao is the most competent pirate captain in our series and was the most successful pirate captain in history. She lived about 100 years away from these guys and was so successful that China had to bring her in and make a treaty with her so she could move on to another field. She ended up making another fortune gambling!
One thing that struck me in these first three episodes of the season is how much therapeutically competent dialogue is used – where does that come from?
I just find it funny. The thing about a workplace is that they all see everything that’s going on with others because they’re all watching each other all the time. I don’t want to go too far with this, but it’s fun that some of these characters see that one of their friends has a weird relationship with his boss and then say, “Hey, you might want to check this out.”
Where do you think this comes from with the characters themselves?
There’s a level of care on this ship that Stede almost infected in the first season, and now those ideas are more alive because Stede has built the Revenge culture. You can see that this spirit is still alive when Jim tells Bang the story of the wooden boy to calm him down. This is a small part of Stede’s kindness that still lives in the world, and Jim’s, who relies on it and can draw on it now that everything is so bleak. That they go from an “every man for himself” ethos to thinking, “There was a time when life on this ship meant something, it doesn’t have to be that way,” is an interesting development for the character and is in keeping with Vico as a person. They radiate genuine friendliness – they are the kind of people who make everyone feel safe. It’s nice to see some of these character traits shine through on Jim.
Without spoiling too much, what can viewers expect as this season progresses?
I’m really excited about Izzy’s journey. Con O’Neill has done such beautiful work and seeing where this character goes and how he grows is, in my opinion, one of the most exciting things about the season. Watching Ed and Stede’s relationship develop is gratifying – seeing them get along and hopefully find a more mature way of being together.
Jim’s relationships with Archie (Madeleine Sami) and Olu also continue to develop, and more broadly, the crew comes together as a new kind of family after mom and dad get back together. I also like that Lucius (Nathan Foad) is back and has an angry young man thing going on that he needs to deal with. It’s so interesting for Lucius to have to go through something really devastating and grow up with it because he had all the answers in the first season.
We can’t help but talk about the mermaid sequence at the end of the second episode. How did that happen?
We really have to choose our shots in the show, so the storyboard was very well thought out. I knew I wanted Kate Bush’s “This Woman’s Work” for the scene, so that was incorporated into it. Unfortunately, Rhys had already had a really bad experience when he almost drowned while shooting in a tank, but I didn’t know that until we were working on the stunts! But when Rhys saw the gorgeous cock that looked so cool and beautiful, he decided to go for it. He knew the scene would look great. So he navigated to this costume, which is basically a big fin that he had to move his entire body to make it work, and Taika is there with all the glue to keep his wig underwater all day. When things are humming and all departments are working, everyone feels safe. It makes everyone feel like, “Let’s do it – let’s get in!”
Speaking of getting started, what pressure did you all feel at the start of Season 2, given the high expectations of the show’s incredibly passionate fan base?
I don’t feel any pressure from the fans, I just feel unconditional love and acceptance, and I think the writers’ room feels that too. We all want it to be good and we all want the plot to be cool. But it’s less pressure and more the level of freedom it gave us, knowing someone was watching. It makes the hard work enjoyable because you know it is appreciated. Some people will have criticism, and that’s okay.
I just know that this – the reaction of the fans to this show – will be the honor of my career. The fan base is so friendly, kind and talented – there’s just a good vibe and it’s been safe and encouraging for everyone.
We all bask in the glow of our fan base’s enthusiasm for the show. It’s infectious – when we all come together, it permeates every element of the show and is very special to all of us.