During my visit to WB Games Montreal, I had the opportunity to speak to several members of the Gotham Knights team, including Ann Lemay, Narrative Director, and Patrick Vaillancourt, Level Design Director for the missions.
Photo credit: WB Games
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Mario: So obviously we’re going to address the elephant in the room in terms of the story, it’s the fact that Batman is dead. Was building this story a challenge at first? Was it more fear or was it excitement?
Anna: It gave us the opportunity to do something different in an iconic universe that has a lot of history, that has a lot of stories. And then to reach out to other characters who are revered, who are loved, who also have a lot of wealth themselves, and then really do a different take on Court of Owls as a starting point.
Patrick: It allows us to really dive deep into each of the characters, see their stories, how they interact with each other. We can really push that side of the story a lot. You especially feel it when you head to the belfry at the base, with the interactions evolving as the game progresses.
Mario: What exactly was the approach to the dynamic between these characters? We know them as superheroes, but on a personal level, all those scenes in the Belfry, how do you make these characters not necessarily likable, Jason Todd for example, he’s not likable but still identifiable to the player?
Anna: Even Jason Todd, every character has something that makes them human. And then really finding that aspect, that vulnerability, that’s what makes a character, someone you can essentially connect with. The starting point we had was: You just suffered a great loss. That means having an emotional shock. Your mentor, your adoptive father, the person who put you on the path to where you are now died and then you don’t know what happened. And then how they deal with it, how they come together… They start from a starting point that isn’t harmonious. Then it’s really their growth as a person, with all the emotions that evokes, and how they grow closer.
Patrick: Both the individual and the interrelationship between the characters.
Mario: And then, right, Batman, he’s not there, but he’s there in a way, so…
Anna: Absolutely.
Mario: What was the challenge, finding the balance between: OK, it’s the story of these characters, but Batman is still there in spirit…in the end, it’s not a Batman story, but it’s still an essential element?
Anna: That’s a great question that no one has asked before. It is something that we have revisited, that we have thought about at each stage of the process to create the individual stories of the knights, the stories of the events that we have in the game and also at the level of the main arc and even the excess content on the page. It’s really, I think, the relationship to progression. In the beginning it is more likely. At some point they have to start grieving, but that’s also in the moments of determination. We have tried to do this as organically as possible. When you’re grieving, when you’ve lost someone, it comes, it goes, it’s not regular, it’s not always logical, but that’s how I think they become family. How they grow closer and then find their own style and then become the best version of themselves as Gotham’s new Dark Knight.
Mario: Many times there have been comics where, say, Batman, he’s gone and someone else takes his place. Often in these stories there’s the theme: OK, if Batman dies, he has to be replaced by another Batman, but that’s not the direction you went?
Anna: Absolutely not. That’s a very clever question. The whole point we wanted to make is that it’s each individual knight that becomes the next Guardian based on the player’s choice, but it’s also the best version of yourself as the Dark Knight of Gotham City. It is very important that they don’t just take on the Batman costume or become a Batman. You are different from Bruce. That’s what Bruce appreciated and loved about them too. He saw their strengths and their weaknesses. That’s what we then focus on in relation to their stories.
Mario: And then there’s the choice that Batman is dead. You could have chosen: Batman is just old then a mentor. Was grief something you were dying to talk about?
Anna: It’s a theme that has influenced character selection, all villain selection. It’s a theme that’s important in the story, yes, but it’s also that if you look at the character of Batman, he’s someone who has strong ideas. It would have created a whole different tension to have Batman. It wouldn’t have been the same game or story at all. No, it was really an intention to focus on these characters and also give them full space.
Mario: About the Harley Quinn storyline. I didn’t see everything there, but I still saw a lot. And then I find it interesting, because here’s a Harley that doesn’t actually seem to have the Joker in her life either, so it’s… There’s kind of a parallel that she also thrives on being a villain to develop.
Patrick: Anyway, we’re writing the levels to show Harley’s character development. An advance in its evil, in its core. And then each of the levels was designed hand in hand with the narrative. How to push the interesting elements Harley? How and how far can we push Harley? Harley is a little more out there, a little crazier, we can afford a little more crazier stuff. So let’s brainstorm. When we find something that interests us, we say, “Yes, that’s Harley.”
We try to make levels in such a way that we have combat, story, infiltration. We always want to have a little bit of everything for everyone but at the heart of Harley’s story, the narrative and then her progression that we see throughout the villain story arc, it’s really an ongoing collaboration that makes sure we can develop and then live, play and then really believe in it.
Mario: We think it’s also fun that we can dig into the character’s nuances that we haven’t typically seen. She’s not just like a joker sidekick. There are small moments I noticed in the cutscenes, when she learns that Batman is dead, she grimaces and then immediately becomes herself again, but we feel like it affects her too. When she ends up being arrested, there are small moments where we get into the nuances of the character. So we were really able to explore the character in a different way.
Patrick: Totally and that’s what’s interesting, seeing all the facets, the development of a villain and then why she’s doing it. She’s an extremely intelligent, Machiavellian character, and she has her ideas. We can discover the more mature version of Harley throughout the game. He’s a character in his own right, he’s a 3D persona with a really solid origin story from the storytelling team.
Anna: What’s also fun about Harley and all of our villains is that each of them also had a relationship with Batman. It’s not just the knights. It’s how they go through it and their reactions that you can see. Then explore the relationships they form with the knights.
Mario: What also struck me was how alive Gotham is. In the Arkham games, there’s always a reason to evacuate Gotham, and then there’s nobody on the streets, it’s people on the streets. What was the approach to this? The fact that people react, are people afraid? Are people happy to see these heroes? Do they tell the difference between a hero and then a villain?
Patrick: There is indeed progress. How do civilians perceive our heroes? At first they’re a little more, you know, like, “No, I don’t like you.” The further you advance in the game, the more this changes for the better. Then in each of our districts there is something like a feeling, a look, a different backstory. So something-
Anna: A different population.
Patrick: A different population, so let’s go through these environments. We see certain types of people differently than others. That was really important to us. Then each of the districts with the historical side architecture-
Anna: Socioeconomic.
Patrick: Socioeconomically they have a whole background. The research conducted by our artistic director looks at the city’s development over the last 400 years, how it was built and how it influenced history. How do we integrate the story of La Cour des Hiboux into this, into history. It’s really rich in history no matter where you go and then there’s a lot to explore and then a lot of things to discover.
Mario: How was the relationship with DC story-wise? Was there a lot of freedom? Were there many parameters to consider? Things you can do you can’t do with certain characters?
Anna: The relationship with DC has been fantastic. Look, they wanted to see what we had to offer, they got excited, they tried things. I’ve worked on many projects, I have many different relationships with such licensees, but it’s a creative process with a lot of satisfaction. They are very interested, they are very intelligent, they have good contributions to make. It was really rewarding, really nice to work with DC.
Patrick: It was really very interesting.
Mario: The people who gave feedback it was creator? I know Scott Snyder was a bit involved.
Anna: No, we worked with Randy Ma, a creative director at DC who deals specifically with video games. He has a lot of experience in that, it was really very pleasant. He helped us create the best possible game that represents DC the way it should be.
Patrick: We really felt heard and he was really receptive. And what we often offered was like… He was impressed, and then he threw the ball back at us like, ‘Wow! You’re really on to something really interesting.” It was really rewarding for both parties.
Anna: It was also fun that we’re all fans here, but it’s still him who knows the story in detail, it’s his job. It’s often fun to be able to ask him, “What can we do about it? “. And then we put out three references, comic panels. He worked really knowingly.