Jonathan Van Ness got into a heated, tear-inducing discussion about transgender rights on the latest episode of Dax Shepard’s Armchair Expert podcast.
Van Ness, who uses the pronouns “they/them” and “he/him” interchangeably and described himself as a “non-binary fucking trans person” in a heated moment, initially pushed back against Shepard’s claim that the New York Times is left-leaning person newspaper.
The 36-year-old Queer Eye star pointed to a series of articles in the Times about controversies surrounding transgender youth and their gender-affirming care. Critics said it focused on the grievances of transphobes and emphasized rare complications or regrets about transitioning, while simultaneously downplaying the voices of real transgender people.
Van Ness — who has previously complained about having to repeatedly explain the meaning of personal pronouns — explained that the New York Times is “totally right-leaning,” at least in its coverage of transgender issues, shedding a few tears along the way Her went on.
Shepard continued to defend the paper and those who reportedly have concerns about transgender children being allowed to begin the transition process.
Difficult conversation: Jonathan Van Ness, 36, broke down in tears during a heated discussion about trans rights with Dad Shepard, 48, on his Armchair Expert podcast
Close to home: Van Ness said the discussion reminded her of difficult conversations with her father as they defended the rights of transgender youth to play sports and receive gender-affirming care; seen on September 13th in NYC
“Some people find the teenage transition very uncomfortable. They challenge that. How do we know the person won’t change their mind? Shepard said.
Confusingly, he also shared the more serious counterargument: “If they kill themselves, then it’s really forever.”
“To even question it makes you an enemy.” “I don’t think that’s the right way,” Shepard added, before inviting Van Ness to voice his opinion.
However, the hairdresser-turned-TV star found the topic far more personal than the academic exercise Shepard seemed to view it as, and they said the conversation made them “feel like I was talking to my dad.” .
However, they approached the issue systematically, explaining that transgender athletes do not have the competitive advantages over cisgender competitors that critics claim.
“There are just so many things that are so much more important, and we’re here saying, ‘Well, there are legitimate concerns.’ [about transgender athletes]“” Van Ness continued. “All I’m saying is, what we know about misinformation and disinformation is that if you have an outsized reaction to something, there’s a good chance you’re going to be exposed to misinformation and disinformation. And much more.” “The rhetoric surrounding the anti-trans backlash actually contains a lot of misinformation and disinformation.”
However, Shepard continued to fight with Van Ness, prompting the Queer Eye star to say it was “disappointing” to see people “think they’re really fighting for female athletes” while trying to discourage transgender youth from playing sports to deter.
They also mentioned Harry Potter author JK Rowling, who was accused of spreading anti-trans bigotry under the guise of concern for cisgender women and lesbians, although they did not call Shepard a transphobic.
“I’m a f*cking non-binary trans person.” “When I talk to my dad or people who say similar things, it’s hard to keep my cool,” Van Ness explained. “I’m not calling you a transphobic. “You can’t be transphobic and still have thoughts that espouse transphobic misogyny and transphobic ideologies or beliefs and not be transphobic.”
Shepard, who posted photos of shorter portions of the interview on his Instagram account, then apologized and said he had “absolutely no intention” of bringing up transgender rights after his guest noted that he wished he had , that the interview would have been devoted more to her podcast and the Netflix series Getting Curious.
Van Ness then began to cry as he said he was defending marginalized members of society.
“I could just cry because I’m so tired of having to fight for little kids because they just want to belong,” they said. “I wish people would be as committed to ensuring young children are included or able to grow up as they are to the fictional fairness of women in sports.”
“I have to tell you that I am very tired,” they added.
Disagreement: Van Ness became animated after Shepard claimed that The New York Times was a left-leaning newspaper and she cited a series of stories about transgender athletes and youth transitions
The devil’s advocate? “To even question it makes you an enemy.” “I don’t think that’s the right path,” Shepard said of the opportunity for youth to receive gender-inclusive care
Rebuttal: Van Ness explained why many concerns about transgender athletes were based on misinformation, then clarified that they were not calling Shepard a “transphobic” even though they said he holds transphobic views
Total seriousness: Van Ness added that the trans rights debate isn’t just about athletics. “It’s also about healthcare, it’s also about gender-based violence,” they said; seen in March in NYC
Van Ness continued that they are “emotionally exhausted” from having to advocate for transgender rights even as they struggle with the threat of anti-trans discrimination.
“I don’t know if I don’t live this way because I’m afraid of the vitriol that trans people feel every day,” they said. “For people who say, ‘You’re so authentic and you’re so brave,’ I’m not.”
Van Ness added that the debate over trans rights isn’t just about athletics.
“It’s also about healthcare, it’s also about gender-based violence,” they said.