The Secretary General of the Esquerra Republicana, Marta Rovira (Vic, Barcelona, 1977), has been living in Geneva (Switzerland) since she decided in 2018 to leave Spain to avoid having to appear before the Supreme Court, which initially ordered her Rebellion and then later for sedition because of his association with the Catalan independence process. From then on, she continued her political activity and was one of the negotiators with the PSOE for the pact that would allow the inauguration of Pedro Sánchez this week. He remains unaware of his return to Barcelona, but he believes the amnesty is an opportunity to “reorient” Catalan politics.
Questions. We are conducting this interview in Switzerland because you left Spain to avoid appearing before the Supreme Court. When do you plan to be able to return to Catalonia following the amnesty law agreed with the PSOE?
Answer. It is very important that the amnesty law is not seen as a tool to determine whether I will return or what personal benefits I will have or not. It must be seen as a tool to defend and restore fundamental rights that should never have been criminalized. And these are rights that are just as important as freedom of expression, peaceful demonstration or political representation. For us, the amnesty law is an instrument that should enable us to sit at the same table and resolve the political conflict on an equal footing. It is a new start, an element of social peace.
Q. The passage of the law by the Cortes implicitly recognizes that certain things should not have happened regarding politics in Catalonia over the last decade. Shouldn’t the independence movement also reflect in this sense?
R. What needs to be done is to transform this opportunity into a real negotiation where everyone has their own vision, otherwise the conditions for self-criticism are not present. All in all, I believe that part of the independence movement has already made this self-criticism without giving up our political goals.
Q. Many people in Spain are waiting for another step. Or a more explicit rejection of the one-sided approach.
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R. The independence movement has also long hoped that the state governments will accept and not deny the reality of Catalonia. This possibility has existed since 2019 because the government has recognized this conflict. Now it has to be solved. This requires responsibility, not denial of reality. We have always said that the best way to do this is through a referendum agreed with the state. The thing is that we cannot do without a democratic way of defending our political project.
Q. In her particular case, she is part of the core of leaders who exerted the greatest pressure in October 2017 to issue an effective declaration of independence rather than call elections. Do you regret anything?
R. At ERC we analyzed what we did, what we learned and what we need to improve. These insights are very useful in getting to where we are today and sitting at a negotiating table that opens up opportunities. Everyone has to criticize what happened, both parties. One of the main mistakes is to believe that by twisting the criminal code the conflict will disappear. Accusing us of terrorism will not make us repent, it serves no purpose. Political maturity is required.
Q. If the amnesty comes about and political life is dejurized, what will they do to prevent it from being legalized again?
R. We have always avoided the legalization of political conflicts.
Q. Well, for example, they voted in Parliament on things that the courts had expressly forbidden.
R. As spokesman for the Junts pel Sí coalition, I presented the referendum law in parliament and had five minutes to do so. To demand that this matter be discussed politically in plenary, because we had a majority and because the citizens voted for it. It was a political debate. What we never expected was that there would be a legal response.
Q. Today the judges see you as a person who has escaped from Spanish justice. Do you think this could complicate your role in dialogue with other political forces?
R. What we did or didn’t do in 2017, or whether we are independents or not, should not classify us or determine whether we can be in politics or not. What is important is that we understand that we have a historic opportunity before us.
Q. National Court Judge Manuel García-Castellón is investigating them for alleged terrorism stemming from the protests by the Democratic Tsunami Movement. Were you involved in organizing these mobilizations or did you know about them beforehand?
R. What I have to say about the democratic tsunami is that all the demonstrations led from the platform, which I did not know exactly and which I witnessed from Geneva, were in the eyes of everyone an exercise of a fundamental right, the right to demonstrate . peaceful and free expression and the right to protest. This was the democratic tsunami, with many people taking to the streets against a verdict that was a very hard blow for Catalonia.
Q. The Guardia Civil reports indicate that he was well aware of the tsunami’s movements.
R. I won’t go into the story that is built from certain areas, that doesn’t help at all. We are concerned to see that there is a systematic pattern of criminal charges being brought against certain political leaders because things are happening that should not happen in a democratic state. In 2017, it became clear through certain media outlets that we would be accused of rebellion. And then came the complaint about it. And in the end it turns out that the verdict was not rebellion, but an excuse to take precautions and order many people to go to prison.
Q. What differences will there be between the agreement that you signed with the PSOE on amnesty and the agreement that Junts signed?
R. There are no significant differences. The law faces the challenge of creating legal certainty; it must not leave room for different interpretations. This law is not about people or issues. It’s about amnesty for facts that should never have been considered crimes.
Albert García
Q. Can corruption cases like that of Junts President Laura Borràs be amnestied with the introduction of the lawfare concept?
R. The law is not about specific people. Amnesty was granted for the events related to the consultation of November 9, 2014, the referendum of October 1, 2017 and events in the exercise of civil rights such as the demonstrations and mobilizations related to the entire process.
Q. Do you understand the concerns of all judges’ associations?
R. I understand the concern as the text is not yet known, but I would like to point out that the Constitution provides for possible amnesties. These also existed in other democratic countries. In the last 30 years, there have been up to 23 amnesty laws in liberal democracies that served to strengthen certain basic rights.
Q. They reached agreement on difficult issues such as the handover of Cercanías to the Generalitat. This agenda will take time. Is there a four-year legislative period?
R. Our agreement is very clear in this aspect and more explicit than the one we signed with the PSOE in 2019. ERC advocates for legislative stability, but not at any cost. If the government takes political responsibility for resolving the conflict in Catalonia, stability will be guaranteed.
Q. Does the legislative period end if there is no referendum?
R. I don’t understand why we independents are asked this question.
Q. The stability of the next government largely depends on you.
R. I’ll tell you another way. We have many proposals for Catalonia and our bet is the referendum. But what the government needs to do is come forward with its own. Has any Spanish politician ever asked himself what Catalonia expects from the Spanish state? Now the government has a moral obligation to resolve the political conflict in Catalonia.
Q. If the amnesty allows the president of the ERC, Oriol Junqueras, to return to institutional politics, who will be the ERC candidate? Oriol Junqueras or Pere Aragonès?
R. These debates are premature. We will proceed in phases. We will wait until the amnesty law has the expected impact and then we will make decisions.
Marta Rovira, on Coutance Street in Geneva. Albert García
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