Hassoumi Massoudou, the 65-year-old Nigerian foreign minister, has served as interim head of government since the military junta’s July 26 coup. On that day, President Mohamed Bazoum fell into the hands of some coup plotters who demanded the withdrawal from the country of the French ambassador and the 1,500 French soldiers who were supporting the legitimate government in its fight against the jihadists. The European Union is proposing to impose sanctions against the military junta, but is not currently considering supporting military intervention. European authorities view the coup in Niger – and also the one in Gabon – as an African problem that requires African solutions. For this reason, the EU has decided to follow in the footsteps of the Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS). This organization, founded in 1975 and comprising 15 countries, is currently handling diplomatic channels, but without ruling out military intervention.
Massoudou, who understands some Spanish having learned it as a third language at school, attended this Thursday as a guest the informal meeting of European foreign ministers taking place in Toledo under Spain’s rotating EU presidency.
Questions. What impact could the sanctions against the putschists being investigated by the EU have on the military junta?
Answer. It’s about putting pressure on the military junta. Because it was the head of the presidential guard who had to ensure the president’s safety [el general Omar Tchiani], who took him hostage. From that moment, ECOWAS decided to impose economic sanctions. And she called on our partners, especially the EU, to support her and also to put pressure on her. ECOWAS leaders experienced four coups in just two years [en países pertenecientes a la organización] and they said enough is enough.
President Bazoum and his family are kidnapped from their home. They turned off their electricity. But he won’t resign
Q What health situation is the president in? Are you standing firm in your decision not to resign?
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R.. I am in contact with him and his health is acceptable, although he is kidnapped in his own home along with his wife and son and their electricity has been cut off. There is no fridge to store food and it is quite hot. In Niger it is now over 40 degrees. There are a lot of mosquitoes and they have trouble sleeping. They have all had malaria because of the mosquitoes. His living conditions are quite harsh, but he is in a good mood, he resists and fights.
Q You don’t intend to resign?
R. Absolutely. There’s no reason for me to do it. There was no political crisis or social crisis. In the fight against terrorism, our country is the best performing country in the region. We have contained Boko Haram in the east, around Lake Chad. We have also contained terrorists in Mali and Burkina Faso. Niger is a pole of stability and success in the fight against terrorism. So there is no reason for this coup. That’s why we call it a coup of personal convenience by the head of the presidential guard. Simply put, it was a villainous act.
Q Is there a way to reach an agreement with the coup plotters?
R. ECOWAS’ economic sanctions will be accompanied by military intervention if the coup plotters do not desist from their actions. Therefore, they must relinquish power and reinstate President Bazoum in office. From this moment on, everything is negotiable. Your exit terms can be negotiated. But without Bazoum’s return to the presidency of the Republic there will be no solution. The only obligation to the coup plotters is that they leave.
Wagner’s Russian mercenaries are spreading anti-French sentiment on social media
P. To what do you attribute the anti-French sentiment in Niger?
R. In these years a new phenomenon has emerged in Africa. This is Wagner, a mercenary organization serving Russian diplomacy. In addition to their military aspect, they also have a large disinformation machine that focuses on criticizing France. Their message has reached major African cities, where they address France’s colonial past. But it has not penetrated the great mass of the population, but rather the unemployed young people living in the cities, who are idle and receptive to any kind of discourse. Using the former colonial power as a scapegoat will not work for long. Because France is our first economic partner and our most important partner in the fight against terrorism. That’s why we are successful. We have an intelligent relationship with France and the United States. Meanwhile, Russia has nothing to offer. There is only one military dictatorship that fights every democratic model. The military dictatorship regimes supported by Russia have failed on all fronts, including the military.
Q How does this message reach young people in cities?
R. Through social networks. Without them this wouldn’t exist.
Q How do you assess the doubts expressed by ECOWAS, including Nigeria, about a possible military intervention in Niger?
R. ECOWAS is determined to intervene militarily. So far they have turned to diplomatic channels, which is normal. However, if all negotiations fail, ECOWAS can only offer a military decision. It was all ECOWAS Heads of State, including Nigeria, who passed this resolution. Nigeria holds the presidency of ECOWAS and is committed like the others. Now it’s a matter of time. The intervention is now underway and the only way to prevent it is for the junta’s coup plotters to leave.
Q The coup junta accuses Cedeao of being an organization paid by France.
R. Do you really think that Nigeria, Ghana, Liberia and Sierra Leone, which are not former French colonies, are influenced by France? Is it reasonable? That’s exactly what this galaxy around Wagner says. This is the campaign against France. And the France of today has nothing to do with the France of the past, which has long since ceased to exist. Thinking that Nigeria or Ghana are ruled by the French makes no sense. In a way it’s racist.
Q What is the reason for the blow? You mentioned personal interest earlier.
R. Yes. It’s just one thing. [El jefe de la guardia personal] He rose because he believed he would be replaced because he had been appointed not by President Bazoum but by his predecessor. Secondly, he lives poorly and it’s about money, which has been leaked. But we didn’t see any real reasons, it surprised us. Elsewhere there are social movements, political conflicts, electoral crises. But President Bazoum was elected without any problems two years ago.
We are the last bastion [contra la migración irregular]. That’s why this blow should also worry Europe
Q If the coup succeeds, will the military junta allow Wagner’s mercenaries to enter Niger?
R. I think that’s the route they would take. The worst thing is that the fight against terrorism would be abandoned if the coup were consolidated, which seems very unlikely to me. The terrorists will advance because our entire strategy will be thwarted. Secondly, they weaken national cohesion and that would lead to the disintegration of the entire country, especially the north. And then we would have a development of all criminal activities, especially migrant trafficking. Because what is reducing this traffic to Europe today? There are two states that are resisting: Niger and Algeria. Niger borders Libya, Chad and Sudan. We are the last bastion [contra la migración irregular]. And that’s why this blow should of course also worry Europe.
Q Will the Sahel become the second stage of confrontation between the West and Russia after Ukraine?
R.. I don’t know it. But I know that the generation of various coups is a fundamentally undemocratic generation that abhors Western values. And they have found an opportunity in Russia to secure their power through mercenaries. And we cannot accept that our country and this region will fall and abandon democracy and freedom, that our people will be taken hostage.
Q What do you think will happen in the next few days?
R.. I believe that military pressure will continue to be exerted on the junta in the coming days. And I think the only solution they have to avoid military intervention is to leave.
Q And will they leave?
R. If they don’t leave, they will leave by force.
Q To what do you attribute the fact that there have been up to ten successful coups in Africa in the last four years?
R.. There is a new phenomenon [en referencia a Wagner]. There is also an economic problem. And security. In Mali, the democratic government could not cope with the division of the country in the north. Islamist movements took advantage of the security vacuum. This in turn triggered political and social protests. But in Niger it was completely different because we managed security at the borders with Chad and Mali very well. We are a democracy with a transition of power. Niger is the counterexample that prevents a single model. The military regimes in Mali and Burkina have not been as successful in the fight against terrorism as democracy in Niger. This poses problems for these regimes and their protectors like Wagner. They don’t want a democratic model that is more successful than the authoritarian model. And this man who took the president hostage was looking for an ideological suit to wear, something that didn’t suit his personal benefit. When he took the president hostage, the suit was there, mass-produced and immediately wearable: it was the anti-French speech and all of Wagner’s rhetoric.
P. Do all of these strokes have a common element?
R.. Yes, the new phenomenon was Wagner. They have offered a mass-produced ideological suit that large numbers of people can wear.
P. What do you think of the position of the United States, which has not yet described the removal of President Bazoum as a military coup?
R. They did not call it a coup because, in their opinion, this would mean the disempowerment of the executive branch. It’s just a question of their legal mechanisms. They assume that the coup did not take place and that Bazoum remains the rightful and legitimate president. Furthermore, they condemn what is happening and support the decisions of ECOWAS, in line with the entire international community.
Q Where were you on the day of the coup, July 26th?
R.. In Niger, in Niamey, I found out very early in the morning. On the first day, I discussed with the Chief of the General Staff about negotiating and asking the head of the Presidential Guard to stop the coup. When I saw that he was determined to stay, I had to go underground and I realized that external measures had to be taken quickly to put an end to this adventure. I traveled to Nigeria on August 3rd or 4th to attend the ECOWAS summit where the sanctions regime was adopted. Since then I have been in Nigeria and follow everything that is happening in ECOWAS.
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