VATICAN CITY “Yes, something is scaring me today. For example, this escalation of war, this waging of wars in the world. One wonders: How will it end if nuclear weapons destroy everything? How will it end? Like Noah's Ark? That’s what scares me, humanity’s capacity for self-destruction today.”
Pope Francis returns to speak with Fabio Fazio about Che tempo che fa on Nove, in a connection recorded by Santa Marta.
Two years ago, when the show was still on Rai, he defined the war as the “nonsense of creation,” and eighteen days later there was the Russian invasion of Ukraine. During the Angelus prayer, Francis said that “war today is in itself a crime against humanity.” And now he is expressing his full concern about what he has repeatedly described as a “piecemeal Third World War” and the danger of the pieces falling into place.
The Pope speaks for a long time, a fifty-minute interview, in which he says, among other things: “God always forgives” and “I like to imagine hell as empty” (“But what I say is not a dogma of faith, I like it, I hope it's a reality”) and explains again that he is not thinking about resigning at the moment: “It's neither a thought, nor a worry, nor even a wish. It is an option open to all popes. But at the moment it is not the focus of my thoughts, fears and feelings. As long as I feel I have the ability to serve, I move forward; When I can't take it anymore, it's time to think about it.
“War is destruction”
Fabio Fazio then asked the Pope about the historic moment we are living through, marked by the wars in Ukraine and the war in the Middle East that is being waged in Gaza between Hamas and Israel: “It is difficult, peace To conclude, I don't.” I know why, but it is what it is. War is destruction. Every day I hear from the Gaza community that it is terrible what is happening: how many Arabs and Israelis have died. Two peoples called to be brothers by destroying each other. This is war, it destroys. The escalation of war scares me. The capacity for self-destruction that humanity possesses today. I wonder how we will end up with nuclear weapons. Will we end up like Noah's Ark?
“War is a selfish option. It is the gesture of taking yourself. Peace is the opposite, it is reaching out to others. The wars did not end after World War II. “Now there are two near us, in Ukraine and the Middle East,” the pope continued. The arms trade is behind the wars. The investments that are currently generating the most money are weapons factories: investing to kill. This is a reality. War prevents us from dreaming. It takes away the smiles of children – explained the Pope – and it is criminal to take away the smiles of children.”
“In June there will be the first world meeting of children,” Francis announced, “to draw attention to the fact that children are the future with the things we will give them.” Either we make sure they are good or grow poorly.”
“The man is free. When a powerful man decides to wage war, he does so in freedom. Wars are often expanded to test new weapons. The deaths are the price you pay. “Hope is the force that moves us forward,” Francis added. Hope never disappoints. We must hold on to hope. It's like an anchor, you throw it away and move forward, holding on to the rope to get to the beach. Hope does not disappoint, we are the ones who create and cause disappointment.”
“God never tires of forgiving; he is a compassionate judge.”
“In my 54 years of priesthood, only once have I denied forgiveness to a person for their hypocrisy.” Forgiveness is for everyone. God never tires of forgiving. God always forgives. We are the ones who are tired of asking for forgiveness. “That’s the problem,” the pope said. The heart open to forgiveness is found in Jesus. It is our hardened hearts that are unable to ask for forgiveness, and that is a bad thing.” “Forgiveness is for everyone, including gun makers.” Gun makers are makers of death, but the Lord never tires of forgiving.
“Sometimes they present the Lord to us as a judge, but he is close, compassionate and merciful. This is the Lord; he shall not punish. I say the act of pain not “because by my sin I have deserved your punishment,” but “because by my sin I have grieved your heart.” “The heart of God is also a human heart. He is sad when he sees our hardness of heart, our plan to move forward with our selfishness,” Francis added.
“God blesses everyone”
“Blessings for gays? “God bless everyone,” the pontiff said of the Holy See’s official document, the declaration “Fiducia supplicans,” signed by the Prefect of the former Holy Office, Cardinal Victor Manuel Fernández, and approved by the Pope in the audience blessing homosexual unions. “The most urgent reform is that of the hearts of the people. Structures can be updated and reformed, they are relative to the historical moment, but hearts must be reformed every day.”
“There is a price for loneliness that you have to pay, sometimes decisions are not accepted,” but “most of the time decisions are not accepted because they are not known,” Francesco told Fazio, who asked him if he doesn't sometimes feel alone because of the decisions he has made (like the one about blessing gay couples).
“The Lord welcomes everyone, each with his own burden.”
The Lord welcomes “everyone, each with his own burden.” The Lord says “all”. “The problem is that we make decisions,” the Pope emphasized. He blesses all who are eligible for baptism, but then people must enter into conversation with the Lord's blessing and recognize the path he suggests to them. The pastoral work of the church is to accompany them in this.”
“Migrants are treated like objects”
“Migrants? There are cruelties against them – Francesco claims – by a mafia that exploits and tortures them. They are often treated like things. I think of the Cutro tragedy. Everyone has the right to stay in their own country and to emigrate, both must be respected. Please don't close the doors. In many countries there are no children, well-managed immigration could help.”
“Argentina? I would like to go there in the second half of the year
“People are suffering a lot, it is a difficult time. In August I have to go to Polynesia and then, if possible, to Argentina. I want to go there,” the Pope concluded.