Juan Carlos Lentijo, President of the Council for Nuclear Safety (CSN), on Thursday at the headquarters of this organization in Madrid Jaime Villanueva Sánchez
Juan Carlos Lentijo (1959, Pedrosa del Rey, Valladolid) has been the new President of the Nuclear Safety Council (CSN), an organization where he began working in 1984, for just over a month. He is CSN’s first President and comes from the House coaching staff, where he has held many positions. It was only in the nine years of his affiliation with the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), of which he was Deputy Director General, that he separated from the Spanish supervisory authority. Lentijo was the Spanish expert who led the IAEA mission to assess the situation in Fukushima, Japan after the nuclear accident. In his first interview as President of the CSN, this industrial engineer defends the proposed solution for Huelva’s phosphogypsum, a toxic and radioactive waste from the manufacture of fertilizers.
Questions. Is it safe to bury phosphogypsum?
Answer. Yes, the plenary session of the CSN analyzed a proposal from the Technical Directorate for Radiation Protection, based on reports from the Council areas, which suggest that the project that the Fertiberia company has put on the table aims to achieve good insulation of the most complicated materials and that favors that this insulation works in the long term from the point of view of radiation protection, which suits us. We must not forget that this project is larger and there are not only materials that emit ionizing radiation of natural origin, but also other heavy metals. All of this needs to be managed in an integrated way.
P The National Court gave them an ultimatum to release this report. Why was the CSN delayed?
R I don’t know the details very well because I haven’t been here, but I get the impression that the assessments our engineers had to make were quite complex. They included very different aspects related to hydrogeology, to radiological effects, to the atmospheric situation… There are a number of elements that are complex and have led to an interaction the owner [Fertiberia] to clarify some technical questions. Apart from the fact that the National Court intervened, we knew that if we were sufficiently clear about all the circumstances coinciding with the project, we would inform. The owner also took his time to answer the questions he was asked from here. All things have matured so that when this National High Court ruling came, we were actually close to publishing the report.
P This project causes a lot of controversy in Huelva because it means leaving the garbage there. Is it feasible to remove these 120 million tons of waste from the area?
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R As far as I know there was an analysis of the options and it was concluded that this coating and in situ isolation of the phosphogypsum was best from all points of view. We have already simply analyzed this option. But I think it would have been very difficult to find other types of options, since removing phosphogypsum has other risks and elements that can complicate this solution. First of all the volume. We’re talking about an immense amount of material. Second, you need to find a place to wear it. And thirdly, in the end it might just be a geographical shift in the situation, which would mean that a very similar solution to this one would have to be chosen somewhere else. Is it really worth it? We have experience dealing with similar situations to this one that are more related to the nuclear industry, for example the old mines. In all cases, here and in the rest of the world, such situations are resolved on the spot. For a project like this, which ensures adequate long-term isolation from hazardous materials, I think the solution is adequate. The project, about which we reported positively, will lead to a significant improvement in the environmental conditions in the region.
P But it leaves Huelva forever mortgaged, as is the case with places with nuclear plants. When projects like this are started, are people really told what that means in the long term?
R Fortunately, the situation has changed drastically in recent years, not only with what I know best, namely the nuclear and radiological environment, but also with questions related to the environment and the use of space. I am sure that what happened in the 1960’s when these activities started is very different from what would happen now if they started. The problem of phosphogypsum dates back to the past, with legislation that was certainly not as protective, not just nuclear or radiological, but environmental in general. And now we have to find a solution. Certainly it was not disclosed at the time what these mortgages were. At the moment I think it would be unthinkable if they didn’t communicate.
P To a certain extent, this situation is reminiscent of the scenario facing the seven nuclear power plants in Spain, which after their closure appear to each have to house a radioactive waste storage facility.
R Well, that’s different. The basic goal in this case is the complete release of the site for other purposes. Hence that the restrictions on uses are zero or minimal. The ITAs [almacenes temporales para los residuos de las centrales] They are a temporary solution. This is not a mortgage for the distant future. It is merely a temporary situation that allows this waste, in this case spent fuel, to be disposed of safely while a permanent solution is sought.
Juan Carlos Lentijo, President of the Nuclear Safety Council, during the interview with Jaime Villanueva Sánchez
P If no consensus has been reached to create a central repository for this temporary phase in which the waste from the seven plants will be stored, the assumption that a final geological repository will be reached does not seem like a realistic scenario, does it?
R Well, we’ll see. This is not only a question of the technical, but also of the social approach. I am sure that Spain, like other countries, will find a solution. We have the case of Finland, Sweden or France right now, who are not only working on site searches, but also on building deep geological deposits and are a definitive solution. Mortgages are virtually nonexistent there because there are no restrictions that could affect the community in which they are located. In Spain we have an example, El Cabril in Córdoba, for intermediate and low level waste that works well.
P Why did the project to build the centralized temporary warehouse (ATC) in Villar de Cañas, Cuenca, fail?
R Formally, the authorities have submitted an application to freeze the processing of the project in the CSN. It is currently waiting for the seventh radioactive waste plan to be drawn up. I find it very difficult to analyze what happened. I have a feeling it was certainly a combination of circumstances. Some has to do with social aspects, there were other technical aspects that made the project slower than initially expected and certainly also contributed to creating some tensions. Maybe also the complete disagreement of all authorities… I have to say, the start of the site search for this project was really very good. Then other things failed…
P Is it safe for Spanish nuclear power plants to operate beyond 40 years as the CSN now authorizes?
R The answer must be yes, as the CSN has already granted approval to extend the lifespan of some of these assets beyond 40 years. The 40 years is a limit originally set in the original design and initial service life. What happened next? Well, there have been some life management programs, aging management of the various components of the plants, which have made it possible to either extend the life of existing components or replace them with new ones. And that means some assets may be able to operate beyond that initial design life at even more demanding requirements than originally as regulations have evolved. Unfortunately, we have suffered accidents, like in Chernobyl or Fukushima, from which we have learned and refined regulations, especially safety regulations. In Spain, if you want to extend the life of one of these facilities, this will be done as a check as if it were an ITV Almost all facilities in Spain are of American origin and we take inspiration from the regulations and practices established by the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission imposed on installations requesting a life extension. There are dozens of similar plants in the US from the same era that are already in operation with life extensions of over 40 years.
P The invasion of Ukraine has put nuclear power in the spotlight. Can nuclear energy be considered an additional risk in a war?
R There is no doubt that nuclear energy, like many other activities, involves risks. Everything in the nuclear sector and in the other sectors, it is designed to be handled in a normal situation. War is not normal. Normally, accidents and even attacks or sabotage are prevented. What the situation in Ukraine shows is that even in a conflict these assets need to be treated very specifically. And that is why the international community, in all its orders and through the IAEA, has tried to exert influence as much as possible so that the situation of these nuclear plants, both operating and operating, is extremely respected in an accidental situation like Chernobyl . The situation has alarmed us all and many. We have supported and will continue to support the work of the IAEA to mediate in some way and ensure that the security elements in these facilities are respected. The physical situation must be respected, a physical threat from the facilities cannot be accepted. But there are other situations involving the professionals who run these facilities that have caused great concern. Because they have been exposed to psychological stress, including their well-being. Unfortunately, this was not always adhered to and there were situations that seemed to us to be an unacceptable risk.
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