Donald Trump personally called two Michigan election workers in the days after the November 2020 election and told them they would look “terrible” if they certified the vote for Joe Biden, new audio recordings have revealed.
The then-president's call is seen by critics as further evidence of his determination to overturn the results at any cost.
On November 17, 2020, Trump called the two Republican election officials in Wayne County, Michigan's most populous county, which includes all of Detroit.
Trump told them that they would have to refuse to certify the votes.
Also on the call was Republican National Committee Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel, a Michigan native.
The then-President told Monica Palmer and William Hartmann that they had to “fight for our country,” Trump said in the recordings, according to The Detroit News.
Monica Palmer (left) and William Hartmann (right, who died in 2021) were the two Republicans on the Wayne County Board of Elections, which certifies elections
Donald Trump is seen at a campaign rally on November 2, 2020. On November 17, he would call two Michigan election officials to try to get them to block the certification of the votes
Ronna McDaniel, a Michigan native, was on the phone with Trump and the two Michigan officials
The recordings were made by a person who was present at the 9:55 p.m. phone call with Palmer and Hartmann. Hartmann died of COVID in 2021 at the age of 63.
Trump told the couple: “We can’t let these people take our country.”
Trump said Republicans “were cheated in this election” and “everyone knows Detroit is corrupt as hell.”
The call came as Palmer and Hartmann sat in a car outside the Wayne County Board of Canvassers' office, where the two Democrats and two Republicans who make up the board were meeting.
They had hesitated to sign the acknowledgment of the vote count, and McDaniel told them to go home that evening and not sign the official declaration.
“If you can go home tonight, don’t sign it,” McDaniel said. “We’ll get you lawyers.”
Trump added: “We’ll take care of it.”
Palmer and Hartmann left the canvassers' meeting without signing the official ballot statement for Wayne County, The Detroit News reported.
The following day, they unsuccessfully attempted to withdraw their votes in favor of certification by filing affidavits claiming they had been pressured.
She said “intense bullying and coercion” coupled with poor legal advice forced them to agree to certify the election after they voted “no.”
Hartmann (left) and Palmer (center) are seen during the Nov. 17 meeting. Trump then called her while they were sitting in a car in the parking lot outside the office
Palmer speaks with Jonathan Kinloch, one of two Democrats on the board
Monica Palmer, pictured on November 20, 2020, said she couldn't remember the call
William Hartmann died of COVID in December 2021. The vocal opponent of vaccination was 63 years old
That same morning, November 18, at 10:38 a.m., Trump tweeted an encouraging message to Palmer and Hartmann.
He wrote: “The numbers have not improved, they are still 71% out of balance,” Wayne County, Michigan, told Canvassers. “There are widespread irregularities in poll numbers.” There are “more voices than people.” The two troubled patriots refuse to sign the papers!'
Trump's claim that the votes were “unbalanced” was untrue – and in fact, he won more votes in the county in 2020 than in 2016.
He won 5,200 more votes in 2020 than four years earlier.
Ultimately, Palmer and Hartmann refused to sign, but were overruled by the Michigan Bureau of Elections.
The office notified county officials of the vote that had taken place, and the signatures of the chair or vice chair of the four-member Board of Elections and the county clerk were the only things required to present the certification to the State Board of Canvassers.
Michigan's vote was officially certified on November 23, 2020.
Jonathan Kinloch, then one of two Democrats on the four-member board, said what happened on the phone call with Trump was “crazy.”
He told the newspaper: “It's just shocking that the president of the United States tried at the smallest level to hinder the electoral process.”
Kinloch told CNN's Laura Coates on Thursday night that Palmer told him she was “under a lot of pressure” about the vote – but he never thought she meant the president calling her in the parking lot.
Palmer said she didn't remember the phone conversation, but McDaniel defended it.
“What I said publicly and repeatedly at the time, what I referred to in my letter of November 21, 2020, is that there was ample evidence that warranted consideration,” she said.
Steven Cheung, a Trump campaign spokesman, said Trump's actions “were taken to carry out his duty as president of the United States to faithfully obey the law and ensure election integrity, including investigating the rigged and stolen 2020 presidential election.”
He added: “President Trump and the American people have the constitutional right to free and fair elections.”