Ferran Adrià (61 years old, L’Hospitalet de Llobregat) is still a star. All you have to do is take a walk with him and Carlos Casillas – the young chef to whom critics have devoted all their attention for his work at the Barro restaurant in Ávila – to La Boquería market in Barcelona. Shopkeepers and neighbors who are shopping come up to him to talk to him. “If you want to know anything about elBulli, ask her,” he says as he greets a woman shopping at the mushroom stand. “It was every year,” he says, hugging her.
Casillas was born in Ávila in 1999, the year Ferran Adrià appeared on his first cover of El País Semanal, and today they come together as representatives of two generations to talk about gastronomy. “How old are you, Carlos?” asks Adrià. “24,” answers Casillas. “Well, when I was 22 I was already head chef at elBulli,” adds the old boss of Cala Montjoi. “And since it closed in 2011, a lot of people think I was on vacation, but I’ve done 500 conferences, 40 projects in Los Angeles, and 25 Bullipedia books, which are doctoral theses. What happened was that I wasn’t the gastronomic focus.”
How did dishes go viral before social media?
FA: With the congresses. You were born at the same time as Carlos. The conferences were crucial because we demonstrated the innovations in terms of products, techniques and intermediate processes. On the Internet, novelty is something different. Although a chef cannot understand his culinary art if he does not publish books with his recipes.
Last June, Adrià opened the doors of the elBulli1846 museum in Cala Montjoi (Roses), the same place where his famous restaurant was located. After the inauguration, he says he has calmed down and is devoting his days to studying. “Now that I have time and experience, I want to improve elBulli’s creative system to help young people. That’s what I work for every day,” he explains.
Ferran Adrià.Vicens Giménez (© Vicens Gimenez)
Casillas was the valedictorian of the Basque Culinary Center. At the age of 21 and in the middle of the pandemic, he joined the Bullipedia team to write Volume VII of Sapiens of Wine and tattooed on his arm the word Sapiens, the name of the knowledge connection method developed by Adrià and his team . His admiration for the Catalan chef’s work is obvious. The man from Avila is able to describe from memory dishes served at Roses that he has never tasted, the year they were created and linking them to preparations by other current chefs.
Adrià’s head spins so quickly that the words rush into his mouth before they come out again, he doesn’t finish some sentences and jumps from one concept to another while steering the conversation to whatever he’s dealing with at the moment. “I work on how our brains work when we taste. From the senses; the basic tastes such as sweet, salty, sour, bitter and umami, which are very difficult for me to understand, but when scientists say so, then there are…, or the trigeminal sensations: the concept of astringent, fresh. . When you understand all of this and create a bite that brings it all together, the complexity is so great that when you eat it you experience a variety of sensory-perceptible characteristics and emotions such as disgust. I felt disgusted in a restaurant.”
Direct current: And with elBulli people also felt disgust, right?
FA: Of course, especially if he gave them rabbit brains with anemone.
Creativity is one of the obsessions they both share and they explain that it is contagious. “In Spain there are 70,000 restaurants, 50 two and three star restaurants. It’s a domino effect. You just have to look at René Redzepi. This Danish chef managed to put an area of the Nordic countries on the world map. A monument should be erected to him, like the Peruvians Gastón Acurio or Virgilio Martínez. 15 years ago, not even God spoke about Peru,” says Adrià.
How is creativity measured?
FA: First, we would have to ask the top restaurants in the world to send us every December what they created that year. Then appoint a committee to analyze whether this has already happened. This requires resources. Although I believe that the big current crisis in the world of gastronomy is traditional cuisine. A guide to restaurants serving traditional Spanish cuisine should be created to highlight those who do it well. But don’t count those who serve tuna tartare.
Direct current: This guide should point out things like eating rabbit in Matapozuelos.
FA: And we should also create another guide to the best menu bars in Spain. Your work is super important.
Among the many milestones in Adrià’s career is “the quality fast food revolution.” He is referring to Fast Good, the fast food chain he founded with NH in 2004. “I really appreciate the first brand that everyone thinks of when it comes to fast food, because I can’t make a better hamburger for the one and a half or two euros it costs. The easiest way is to make it from Wagyu for 14 euros.” But this innovative venture was also the first failure, which he admits when he talks about his mistakes. “It wasn’t a success, it was because we didn’t make it. When I give a talk, I first ask people how much they would like to earn. Before the illusion, the economic question is the most important, because if the model does not work we will have to close.”
Carlos Casillas.Vicens Giménez (© Vicens Gimenez)
Casillas explains that his intention is to continue in Ávila, where he is building a nice network of suppliers, and that his restaurant, whose employees belong to Generation Z, is open from Thursday to Sunday so that they can live a life. “Today is the first day I’ve missed since we opened in April,” he admits sadly. “Look at the positive side of it,” Adrià replies. “It’s okay to be away at some point to check whether the team is functioning without you. In 25 years at elBulli, I have missed 25 days: the day of my wedding, the corresponding seven days of vacation I took when we had the gala dinner for the reigning royals and several other very special occasions. None if sick. But if a chef doesn’t want to be in his restaurant, I think that’s great too.”
When asked if Ferran Adrià has ever thought about opening a restaurant under anonymity, he quickly replies: “Cooking can be classified as reproductive and creative, and reproduction bores me a lot.” So much so that at home I only eat grilled fish do.” Ferran Adrià doesn’t cook? “I haven’t physically cooked in over twenty years. At elBulli, I didn’t want to start peeling potatoes… I really admire high-ranking people who mash in the kitchen, but that doesn’t appeal to me.”
Direct current: And what excites you?
FA: See something new. Get up early every morning, pick up a book and study it, or go to lunch with my wife. We eat out 90% of the days. It’s the cheapest luxury there is. I don’t have a car and what I would spend on maintenance is what I spend on food.
Direct current: And what excites you about food?
FA: If I go to a creative restaurant, creativity. If I go to another restaurant, I want it to be delicious. But I’ve never cried in front of a plate.
Is there any advice that young chefs like Carlos often ask for?
FA: In Spain there is a certain shame in asking. This is completely normal in the United States. They ask me how to start a restaurant and I always tell them that beforehand they should consult five restaurateurs in the area to explain their project to them, because 90% of businesses do not last five years. You can be a genius, but if the numbers don’t add up, you have to close.
And elBulli, was it always profitable?
FA: There are many legends about elBulli, but I’m a numbers freak. In 2001, I stopped earning a million and a half euros by closing at noon to have more time to create. There is now a myth that fine dining restaurants are not profitable, but that is a lie. How much does it cost to eat at Noma? [el restaurante de René Redzepi en Copenhague, considerado uno de los mejores del mundo].
Direct current: The menu at Noma costs around 600 euros and this summer I paid 800 euros with wine. But there is a willingness to pay, not here in Spain, look at what emerged when Dabiz Muñoz increased the price – in 2022 the unpaired tasting menu at DiverXO went from 250 to 365 euros.
FA: Yes, but who puts it together?
Direct current: Public opinion.
FA: You know that the Michelin Guide was born for tourism, right? The same applies to top restaurants. Spain is fortunate to be one of the most visited countries in the world and most two and three star restaurants do not function without gastronomic tourism.
And what was it like before gastronomic tourism?
FA: In the eighties you had to drive to France. For 400 years, all of the Western culinary creativity took place here. Now geogastronomy, a word that works very well, has changed thanks to Spain.
Ferran Adrià and Carlos Casillas, photographed at the Hotel Le Méridien Barcelona, where the conversation took place.Vicens Giménez (© Vicens Gimenez)
Thanks to Ferran Adria?
FA: No, thanks to Spain. ElBulli is the origin, but if it were not for the generation of different ages in which chefs like Arzak, Subijana, Berasategui, the Rocas and those of my brother Albert’s age came together and formed a movement together, we would not be speaking now. He would have stayed overnight at the crazy Carioco’s restaurant, like they saw me at the beginning.
What is it like to be up there for so many years?
FA: The ego is an aberration. Vanity and taking credit for your work are fine as long as they aren’t excessive. Mine wasn’t in the script. People say that I was the best restaurant in the world five times, but the most important thing about Ferran Adrià is not the gastronomy. I have five Honoris Causa and I say that because 99% of people, even in this profession, don’t know it. We were the first to receive a Fine Arts Gold Medal. I played in 700 covers… I was always very naive and experienced everything that way. If you ask people who know me, they will tell you that I am a completely normal person.
And reserved. Do you have Instagram?
FA: The foundation (elBullifoundation) does, but I don’t have my own personal account. Who could be interested in my life? You will have seen my wife at most twice. If you want respect, you have to do it right.
Direct current: What are you most proud of?
FA: To continue to inspire excitement for new generations like yours. The great challenge we now face in Spanish cuisine is to create a world leader in the creative field. The next few years are assured because there are people with a track record and a good level who aspire to be there. In the list of the 50 best of this year, the winner will be Diseño, the runner-up will be DiverXO and there will be Joan (Roca), Andoni (Luis Aduriz), Quique (Dacosta), Ángel (León), etc. But your generation is crucial, and all my work now is for you, so that in 15 years two or three world leaders will emerge, just as we have now.